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Come on y'all; leadership is KP with people, instead of dirty dishes.

You need a POR, you get elected PL, and you clean up your patrol.

 

 

Or don't, and say you did.

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Being forced to follow isn't invoking leadership.  If given a choice the boys would head in every different direction.  Oh, yeah, that's right, they do whenever they get a chance.  One can follow the directions on a duty roster, but creating loyalty and trust in that piece of paper isn't really leadership.

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"I am that I am" -- the Almighty.

 

Perhaps (weather it's rallying your patrol or a nation), it starts from a sense being.

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This quote would serve PLs well:
 

"My observation is that whenever one person is found adequate to the discharge of a duty … it is worse executed by two persons, and scarcely done at all if three or more are employed therein.â€

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"I am that I am" -- the Almighty.

 

Perhaps (weather it's rallying your patrol or a nation), it starts from a sense being.

:) a bit misquoted, but if understood would change the way a lot of people think about power, not leadership.

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@@CalicoPenn, interesting connection to religion. Religion, to me, is a matter of the heart. It's hard to prove anything one way or the other. There are lots of interpretations, and yet nobody can nail it down. Maybe leadership is also a matter of the heart, or at least maybe that's what good leadership is.

 

@@Stosh, not necessarily misquoted. From the Hebrew the quote is ehyeh asher ehyeh. Asher can translate to which, that, or who. But better yet, ehyeh can translate to "I am" or "I shall be." I am who I shall be, I shall be who I am, .... It's one of those things that gets lost in translations and opens up a lot of different interpretations.

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@@CalicoPenn, interesting connection to religion. Religion, to me, is a matter of the heart. It's hard to prove anything one way or the other. There are lots of interpretations, and yet nobody can nail it down. Maybe leadership is also a matter of the heart, or at least maybe that's what good leadership is.

 

@@Stosh, not necessarily misquoted. From the Hebrew the quote is ehyeh asher ehyeh. Asher can translate to which, that, or who. But better yet, ehyeh can translate to "I am" or "I shall be." I am who I shall be, I shall be who I am, .... It's one of those things that gets lost in translations and opens up a lot of different interpretations.

 

Which translation is not necessarily the arbitrary selection of various options for translation, but also, and even more important at times, the context in which it is written.

 

I really don't see many rabbinical scholars flipping coins when it comes to which meaning is intended, but go to further clues from the context of the comment.  It is clear that no one knows God's name, so we either leave it blank, use a made up name or we put in a descriptive phrase in it's place.

 

Moses asks "God" what his name is, and "God" answers "I am" (we are dealing with a persona) "who", (rather than that or which), back to "I am".    "I shall be who I shall be" works as well, but because it was in the conversation, probably the present tense would be more approopriate..

 

This would be fine and dandy if all we were concerned about was the "name" of "God" as an identifier, but any rabbinical scholar will be quick to point out that this was not the gist and intent of the message being sent to the reader.  Going back to the context of the conversation, Moses wasn't asking about his title, identifier or name as we would assume in many translations he was going after something else in this situation.  It's kinda important because it plays itself out in the definition of leadership in a prominent role.

Edited by Stosh

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I really don't see many rabbinical scholars flipping coins when it comes to which meaning is intended, but go to further clues from the context of the comment.  It is clear that no one knows God's name, so we either leave it blank, use a made up name or we put in a descriptive phrase in it's place.

 

@@Stosh, I realize you're an expert in a lot of things, but the subject of what rabbinic scholars do? No offense, but I'll listen to a rabbi before I listen to you. Actually, I have. I didn't make up the differences of I am who I am. I saw the quote here, saw that there was a difference of opinion of the translation, and just knew there would be a lot more to this given the importance of that statement. It took me a minute to find the discussion of I shall be vs I am. I thought it would be a fun way to illustrate something interesting about the Bible. I certainly didn't want to start an argument. There's enough of that in this forum.

 

But, back to the OT, please. Just as religion is full of arguments about a subject that's supposed to be about good will, and this forum is full of arguments about a subject that's supposed to be about good character, the idea of leadership seems to also be full of arguments about a subject we'd all like to encourage. Solve that dilemma and I'll listen.

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Not sure if you all have seen this, but even in an organization like Scouting, this still applies;

 

https://www.ted.com/talks/simon_sinek_why_good_leaders_make_you_feel_safe?language=en

 

Of course it applies, it is what I have been promoting all along.  This guy hits the nail on the head and explains what taking care of your people with Servant Leadership is all about!  Thanks for the link!

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@@MattR and @@Stosh thanks for the exegesis.

 

My specific point was that our culture is ingrained with a notion that leadership is more about "being" than "doing" or "earning". It's something you are expected to take on, not something you can imitate by following a series of steps.

 

To scouts, I may say: "You are a leader. The patch for it comes when others notice you leading them."

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@@MattR and @@Stosh thanks for the exegesis.

 

My specific point was that our culture is ingrained with a notion that leadership is more about "being" than "doing" or "earning". It's something you are expected to take on, not something you can imitate by following a series of steps.

 

To scouts, I may say: "You are a leader. The patch for it comes when others notice you leading them."

 

@@qwazse  Take a look at the TED talk video that @ just posted.  That video is spot on illustrating the difference between leadership and management that I have been talking about.  They are not synonymous! and in many cases opposites!  The biblical lesson being taught here with Moses is precisely the point of I am who I am as the Name for "God".

Edited by Stosh

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Calico used an interesting phrase--the "leadership industry."

 

I think it captures the situation quite well.

 

After 30 years in the military, and attending some of the finest military and civilian leadership schools out there, two things occur to me:

 

- There is no shortage of leadership experts, degrees to be earned, books to buy, seminars to attend, theories to be hashed/re-hashed...one can drown in the topic of leadership

 

- Despite this, never have I witnessed such a dearth of true leadership at every level, be it government, military, scouting, business, education, religion, etc.  

 

Leadership has been taught like a cook book recipe for too long.   It may not be popular to say, there is such a thing as a natural born leader, and our society has done its best over the decades to downplay and suppress the natural leadership abilities of young men and women.   Scouting does it too.  

 

Natural leaders need grooming, correction, etc., yes.   But I've grown rather weary of the industry of leadership experts that couldn't lead a troop from the bus, across the parking, to the burger joint.    Plenty of fancy slides and phrases and presentation.   Not much where the rubber mets the road.

 

I guess it's just part of the "everyone is a winner" philosophy.   Some people are leaders.  Many try to be.   Others make a bundle of money off teaching leadership.

 

Case in point:   if WB is as truly wonderful as its proponents say it is, why has scouting continued its grim slide over the last decade?   There are plenty of reasons, and WB is not solely to blame.   But WB is a prime example of a "leadership lab" that teaches leadership, but it doesn't have much impact once the course is over.  

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While the fact remains I know very little about the current WB program, I was pretty disappointed in the previous one when it came to leadership.  From the way people talk, I'm thinking the new one is not an improvement.

 

When I hear my boys say that they learned more leadership from me than from NYLT, it makes me wonder about that program as well.  I don't see much "leadership" emphasized when the duty roster approach to POR's can be done with little or no leadership including the SPL/ASPL as well as the PL/APL teams even though the word leader is part of the title.

 

While I see a lot of what I call organizational management going on, it is pretty much masquerading as leadership.  Our boys are statistically measured their success as POR's with SMART goals and observable markers.  But as the TED lecture states, that is management authority, not leadership.  "You have to listen to me because I'm running the show." is not leadership in any way, shape or form.

 

The problem I have with my boys is that they are identified and given opportunities to develop their leadership and at times they are terrible when it comes to management.  But it doesn't matter because those around them tend to pick up the slack.

 

This is why I put out the thread that died off quickly about trying to define the difference between management and leadership..  It would seem that most don't think there is a difference when I see a whole lot of difference, like miles apart difference.

 

I lost a very charismatic scout last summer because the new troop wasn't "meeting his needs".  He joined another troop and has "blossomed" into leadership, so they say.  He has his ISA filled up after just one popcorn sale that he has Philmont all paid for, but he won't be old enough to go for another year and a half.  He's doing great in his Scouting career I've been told, and yet I hear nothing about anyone following him with any inkling of leadership.  He is concerned only about his self and his success and NO ONE is following him anywhere.

 

On the other hand, last week I handed a bag of cookies to a Webelos II cub and found my next leader.  There will be more, but this guy stands out.  Although I was not privy to his selection as Denner, the boys in his den sensed something and reacted accordingly.  These are 9 year old boys who can recognize leadership when they see it.  Why can't the adults?.

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 These are 9 year old boys who can recognize leadership when they see it.  Why can't the adults?.

Stosh, I enjoyed reading your excellent post, and concur wholeheartedly with your points.  I felt the need to highlight this one sentence.

 

Indeed, many adults in scouting today aren't leaders.   In fact, many of these aren't good managers either.   Despite their many knots, honors, gee gaws and gimcracks.  They tend to do two things:  promote dull and uninspiring programming, which results in scouts walking away.   And turn away or turn off adults that are/could be great scout leaders. 

 

The BSA should be a haven for can-do, outdoor-oriented, trustworthy, inspiring, adventure-minded men and women.   But it's just the opposite.   Those types of folks tend to stay away.   The BSA in its current form truly tries the soul of any adult who wants to make a difference.  

 

It seems Kudu has been kind of scarce around here lately but I'll make a feeble attempt to impart one of his beliefs that I concur with:  when White Stag WB types replaced Green Bar Bill and traditional scouting, it was the beginning of the end of alot things.  

 

Today's scouts may not know what they are missing, but they know something isn't right.

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