Eagle BOR Scoutmaster Introduction

[MattR 2659]

You can bet me but you'd lose. The average number of Eagles in the top 50% of troops is 9 per year. There's 25% that have 12+ on average. The remaining 25% have 5-8.

 

So taking the overall average (9) times the number of units (40, there's more but lets work with that) that's 360 candidates. Take an smooth split of 360 divided by 12, that's 30 scouts a month. At 30 mins per scout (usually more but let's go in your favor) that's 15 hours worth of EBORs. If you meet twice a month to do this at the district level that's nearly two full working days of meetings. Divide that in to four meetings per month and you'd have nearly 4 hours of EBORs per week.

 

How's my math now?

Those numbers do not reflect my council. We are one of the largest troops in our council, often we are the largest, and a good year for us is five eagles. We've never had nine. Typical for our district is one or two per troop. Nine eagles a year would be half of our typical troops. So, maybe being so close to national changes things. Or maybe you're near a big city.

[fred johnson 936]

You can bet me but you'd lose. The average number of Eagles in the top 50% of troops is 9 per year. There's 25% that have 12+ on average. The remaining 25% have 5-8.

 

So taking the overall average (9) times the number of units (40, there's more but lets work with that) that's 360 candidates. Take an smooth split of 360 divided by 12, that's 30 scouts a month. At 30 mins per scout (usually more but let's go in your favor) that's 15 hours worth of EBORs. If you meet twice a month to do this at the district level that's nearly two full working days of meetings. Divide that in to four meetings per month and you'd have nearly 4 hours of EBORs per week.

 

How's my math now?

 

You must have an interesting council and an interesting district.  

• 40'ish units.  I can believe that.  It would be a large district, but not unreasonably large.  But usually in a district, some units are thriving and some are on life support.  
• Eagle averages ... 25% with 12+ ... top 50% with 9+ ... remaining 25% with 5-8.  Doesn't add up.
  • If top 50% have 9 per year, then that would also include the 25% that have 12+ per year.  
  • Another 25% have 5-8.
  • So either 25% are missing or the "top 50%" is the "middle 50%".
• If units are having an average of 9 Eagles leading to 360 candidates, then each unit would need to recruit 20 scouts a year and each of your 40 units would need to be 60+ scouts in size and the average age of Eagle would need to be about 13 or 14. Given as Baden Powell said, the ideal troop size is 32 and I often see troops of 10 to 20 scouts and troops of 50+ are the unusual, I just don't buy the numbers.  

Maybe your district is unusually successful.  But our district has 70 to 80 Eagles a year and we are a large district with an above average rate of Eagles.  Even then, it averages to about 1.65 eagles per troop per year.  Heck, there just arn't enough PORs in a troop to successfully produce 9+ eagles a year ... year after year.  

 

But then again, maybe your district is unusual.  ... Now if you said "council", I could believe it as some councils are much smaller and effectively a very big district.  

Edited February 15, 2016 by fred johnson

[perdidochas 658]

Just curious, what would happen if you unit said you were holding the BOR and invited a district rep? 

 

I don't get this need by the district to pigeon-hole units in to their schedules.

 

We also have the centralized district EBOR model.  I frankly like it better than the old way, which is to convene it ourselves, inviting a district rep.  I think we couldn't get a district rep to do it. 

[perdidochas 658]

I'm sure every district has it's traditions.  I as SM was "invited" but not required to attend the EBOR.  I choose to do so and as a guest enter and sit quietly in the back of the room.  If a SM does choose to attend (I think most do if they can make it that night) the board excuses the boy for a few moments and then asks the SM a few questions about the boy that are not part of the process.   I leave when the boy does and avoid that Q&A period.  This is the scouts EBOR.  He has done the work, he has gotten the signatures, all i's are dotted and t's crossed.  There's nothing more that needs to be said or done.  What are they going to ask me that makes one iota bit of difference?

That's what our SM does.  He goes out with the Eagle candidate during the deliberations. 

[perdidochas 658]

You can bet me but you'd lose. The average number of Eagles in the top 50% of troops is 9 per year. There's 25% that have 12+ on average. The remaining 25% have 5-8.

 

So taking the overall average (9) times the number of units (40, there's more but lets work with that) that's 360 candidates. Take an smooth split of 360 divided by 12, that's 30 scouts a month. At 30 mins per scout (usually more but let's go in your favor) that's 15 hours worth of EBORs. If you meet twice a month to do this at the district level that's nearly two full working days of meetings. Divide that in to four meetings per month and you'd have nearly 4 hours of EBORs per week.

 

How's my math now?

 

We don't have nearly the size district you do, so the centralized option works for us.  A local law firm allows us the use of their conference rooms in a centralized location one Thursday evening a month.  Usually there are 5-10 boys each month (at least in the 5 or 6 times I've gone to it). 

[Krampus 696]

We also have the centralized district EBOR model.  I frankly like it better than the old way, which is to convene it ourselves, inviting a district rep.  I think we couldn't get a district rep to do it. 

 

I hear ya. There's no way a centralized model would work. Frankly, could not imagine having a group of people who do not know our boys making judgement about them. Although our district rep keeps telling me our guys are the best prepared of any he sees.

 

We don't have nearly the size district you do, so the centralized option works for us.  A local law firm allows us the use of their conference rooms in a centralized location one Thursday evening a month.  Usually there are 5-10 boys each month (at least in the 5 or 6 times I've gone to it). 

 

It works against us more than it helps us. We used to be bigger. They split us in two several years ago. Big mistake.

[John-in-KC 311]

Just curious, what would happen if you unit said you were holding the BOR and invited a district rep? 

 

I don't get this need by the district to pigeon-hole units in to their schedules.

GTA, page 58:

 

 

8.0.3.0 Particulars for the Eagle Scout Rank

 

The particulars below pertain only to the Eagle Scout rank.

 

1. Council advancement committees must determine—and make known—method(s) for conducting Eagle Scout boards of review: whether unit committees or the council or district advancement committees administer them, and also how board chairpersons are selected.

 

2. If conducted at the unit level, at least one district or council representative must serve as a member. If the unit requests it, more than one may do so.

 

The Council decides how EBORs will be conducted.  If they decide District or even Council Boards only, then the unit has no choice.

 

My Council Advancement Committee deferred to the District Advancement Committees.  I know several which use Unit EBOR with District Guest, and several which use District EBOR.

Edited February 18, 2016 by John-in-KC

[Krampus 696]

GTA, page 58:

 

The Council decides how EBORs will be conducted.  If they decide District or even Council Boards only, then the unit has no choice.

 

My Council Advancement Committee deferred to the District Advancement Committees.  I know several which use Unit EBOR with District Guest, and several which use District EBOR.

 

Good catch. I could see this working for small councils/districts. Could not see this working in larger districts. You'd need a full time staff.

[perdidochas 658]

I hear ya. There's no way a centralized model would work. Frankly, could not imagine having a group of people who do not know our boys making judgement about them. Although our district rep keeps telling me our guys are the best prepared of any he sees.

 

 

It works against us more than it helps us. We used to be bigger. They split us in two several years ago. Big mistake.

 

Well, in the centralized model EBOR that our district does, there are one or two district representatives (usually two), and two to four Troop representatives (usually committee members, but in a lurch we have used parents).   The only difference between this and organizing our own is that we don't have to find district reps, and have no choice about dates (always the third Thursday of the month, although, I'm sure something could be arranged differently if needed).  So, the people making judgement are a combination between district and troop, just like in a troop scheduled EBOR.  I was with the troop before we had the district EBORs, and the only real difference is scheduling and location. The troop EBORs also had two district reps, and three committee members.   What's good about the centralized model is that a district rep can do two EBORs in an evening. 

[fred johnson 936]

Our district EBORs are scheduled on-demand, usually one to two weeks after their paperwork is cleared at the council for an EBOR.  On the night of their EBOR, usually there are three EBORs.  6pm, 7pm and 8pm.  The EBOR are run by one main district rep who invites troop leaders of other troops to participate.

 

Judgement is a bad view of the EBOR role.  Confirmation is a more appropriate term.  Scouts earn the rank.  

• Once the project paperwork is signed by the scoutmaster and beneficiary, it's a good project.  
• Merit badges signed are completed requirements.  
• Scoutmaster signing off on Eagle paperwork indicates completed PORs.  

Unless there is some blatant issue, the scout will pass.  I've sat on a good number of these EBORs.  It's a nice view of how other troops run things.  

Edited February 21, 2016 by fred johnson

[Krampus 696]

What's good about the centralized model is that a district rep can do two EBORs in an evening. 

 

We've done three in an evening in the decentralized model. In fact, another rep in another unit did a few on the same night. Using the distributed model on that one night they did 5 EBORs. If needed, they could do more...would just need another district rep.

 

I think each model may work well depending on the district and the troops involved. A centralized model would never work in my district. There would just be no time to get all the EBORs done. The added flexibility of the decentralized model seems to work well for everyone's schedule. Spoke to may district rep this past week...he said he'd step down if they went to a centralized model. Evidently they tried it at one point and it was a mess.