Breaking Bad ... Scouters

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

if your a law enforcement officer and are on call, you shouldn't be at scouts. In the UK (where I'm from) it all seems complete madness. Some of our police are allowed guns (armed response units), but when they are not on a job they are kept locked in the police station. Our kids are allowed knives thought and the law is quite reasonable, if stopped by the police, if you can prove you have a good reason to have it on your person then thats fine

 

Yes, I remember one of the service crew members I worked with being so proud because he was selected to be part of armed response and was authorized to carry on duty.

 

To me, the British firearm laws did not make sense and seemed crazy since someone could not defend oneself and family. Then I realized you did not have a revolution that permanently overthrew your king. And unfortunately I do not know enough British history to know how the Lord Protector handled firearms to retain his dictatorship.

 

As for being on call, on our side of the pond, some law enforcement will have extra duties that they perform as needed. One example is our Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) members. In my city, they have normal areas to patrol, but can be called out to do a SWAT job.

 

Also sometimes there is not enough personnel, or special situations occur, and folks who are suppose to be off, need to report in. One of the ASMs department is short staffed, and they take turns doing night and weekend duty.  Also if something major happens, he may get called in. While at summer camp one year, his department tried to get him to come back from vacation to work. Thankfully the police chief is supportive of Scouting, and he was allowed to stay at camp since if he left, we the troop would need to leave due to lack of adults.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Eagle94-A1

[tonkatim 26]

In the Metropolis that I reside; they refer to the Unit as Mobile Reserve. The Gent's in question are allowed to come on Cub campouts and I have never observed any weapons. They are locked up in a gun safe in the trunk of their vehicle. Never taken out. They go by the book, I go by the book and their kids go camping.

 

And just in case you were wondering, the Officer at the training event had no weapon. Just everything else on as he sprinted to the event from duty. Doing what it takes to get the kids out in the woods.

 

Back on the rails... This plot hints at the movie Roadhouse. With the town villain so strong that everyone knew but was afraid to tell.

[walk in the woods 888]

if your a law enforcement officer and are on call, you shouldn't be at scouts. In the UK (where I'm from) it all seems complete madness. Some of our police are allowed guns (armed response units), but when they are not on a job they are kept locked in the police station. Our kids are allowed knives thought and the law is quite reasonable, if stopped by the police, if you can prove you have a good reason to have it on your person then thats fine

From my perspective the problem with the knife law is it starts from the assumption that the government grants your freedom to own and carry a knife rather than acknowledging that ones freedom is unalienable.  Unless my behavior causes another to be unable to exercise their own freedom, that behavior is not subject to government intervention or regulation.  Freedom it is not granted by the government, it can only be stolen by the government with the consent of a willing populace.  That is complete madness.

[Stosh 3452]

It is interesting to ponder, but we'll never know for sure, but I wonder if, in the French theater where people were able to confront the shooters and beg for the lives of their loved one and were summarily killed along with such love ones, had the instead of beging, returned fire, would have reduced the death toll.

 

We can play "What If" all day long.  What if the populace was forced to be unarmed.  That really reduces the scope of the "What If" game considerably down to a pretty poor forgone conclusion in which self dense is no longer an option.  I guess I'd rather die shooting instead of begging.

[jpstodwftexas 72]

Exactly...A Pyscho starts shooting up the Mess Hall full of Scouts.....How Many Scouts could be saved in the Time it takes to run to your car, pop open the trunk, open a gun safe and run back to the Mess Hall? 

 

Remember Folks that people who committ crimes don't care about rules anyways.....They won't worry about killing Kids or Adults...How many seconds does it take to take a shot? How many lives would be lost in the Minutes it would take to retrieve a weapon?

[Stosh 3452]

I never thought scouts in the program would be abused by adults.

 

I never thought scouts in the program would be exposed to drug dealers.

 

I never thought scouts in the program would be ... feel free to fill in the blank,

[cyclops 55]

What are the statistics on psychos trying to commit mass murder at scout camps?

[tonkatim 26]

Look, I am fairly certain that the Officers are required to carry a sidearm because they are to rapidly respond to any emergency that they are dispatched. If you want them to strap on their firearms at all times; by all means open up another thread and discuss away. My point has been all along that I have two Cub Dads that go camping and by following the rules they are allowed to do just that.

 

Back, back on track- who would play the lonely drifter that rolls in to town and takes down the crooked Scouter. 

[RememberSchiff 3662]

...If you want them to strap on their firearms at all times; by all means open up another thread and discuss away....

 

As OP, this thread topic was the selling of drugs by a scouter on scout property, the apparent unawareness of the troop over two years, and concerns about background checks. 

 

Concealed carry discussion is encouraged to go another thread. The moving this thread to Issues & Politics seems to have encouraged the straying. This is a BSA issue.

 

While researching the original topic, I found more arrests for recent activity of scouters than I expected. I am becoming skeptical of our background checks. I would like to see an after conviction review of our background check. Why didn't it filter these criminals out of our program? Maybe for this individual this was new criminal activity(no previous record), maybe we failed to check Facebook or known associates,.. the former is understandable, the latter not so much.

 

My $0.02

Edited January 18, 2016 by RememberSchiff

[JoeBob 606]

BSA background checks can't be that thorough.

I passed...

[walk in the woods 888]

Background checks only catch those that have already been caught.

[RememberSchiff 3662]

Background checks only catch those that have already been caught.

That would be just a criminal record check. Background checks do that and often more - credit history check (debt), police calls to your house, memberships, family criminal background, social media check, reference interviews ...

[Stosh 3452]

What are the statistics on psychos trying to commit mass murder at scout camps?

 

Two months ago the statistic would have been the same for the statistics of scout leaders selling meth at the Scout meeting place across the street from the elementary school.

 

Only takes 1 to make National rethink it's policy, but then it's too late.  Makes National look like it's time to change the Scout Motto.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Stosh

[Rick_in_CA 401]

http://articles.philly.com/2015-11-18/news/68356938_1_drugs-main-line-william-colarulo

 

Background checks come into question here, particularly since this occurred in Pennsylvania. Her son has several drug arrests in both Maryland and Pennsylvania, I would think this would be noted in the PA State Police and FBI checks of her known associates.

While the article mentions prior arrests, it doesn't give any details (where there any convictions?). I wouldn't be surprised if the BSA background check only looks at criminal convictions. It isn't that difficult in some places to end up with an arrest on your record without doing anything wrong. Usually those end up with the victim being let loose a few hours later with a "sorry about that", but it's still on your record.

[RememberSchiff 3662]

While the article mentions prior arrests, it doesn't give any details (where there any convictions?). I wouldn't be surprised if the BSA background check only looks at criminal convictions. It isn't that difficult in some places to end up with an arrest on your record without doing anything wrong. Usually those end up with the victim being let loose a few hours later with a "sorry about that", but it's still on your record.

Good points.