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hendrickms24

Question about Scoutmaster training.

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A few comments.

 

1)  Specific training, aka classroom training, doesn't have a test out. I taught both the pre-2015 and the current, 2015 version and the latest has left out a SIGNIFICANT portion of the pre-2015 version, and it still doesn't compare to older versions. Because Specific is suppose to be placed into SCOUTNET, I do not know if it will allow a "youth" to have that training. KEEP THE TRAINING CARD just in case ( all caps are emphasis)

 

2) IOLS does allow a test out option. When we did it in my district, it is a one day, pass or fail, event. At the moment we have a 100% pass rate, but only 2 adults have done that option. 1 was prior military, 1 was a youth staffer on the IOLS course I taught (his dad, who replaced me as training chair, didn't want to give him credit for IOLS as he thought it may appear to be showing favoritism to his son. Hence he made his son do the test out with other leaders present.)

 

3)  I've used folks as staff who I knew had the knowledge, skills, abilities, and experience to teach IOLS, EVEN IF THEY DID NOT TAKE THE IOLS COURSE. I think the Scouter who has been to Philmont 3 times, or the WB 3 beader who also worked on summer camp staff as a youth and is an MBC for several outdoor MBs can teach these basic courses without having to go through them. Let them teach, and get credit at the same time.

 

 

4) Does anyone remember when national made the big push on training records on SCOUTNET, but the powers that be only thought about using codes for the then current training? Or how at one point national was trying to make everyone redo training every time the name of the course changes?

 

One of the things my DE at the time told me to do because of the above, and I still do it to this day, is for every class I teach, also list me as a student, and issue a card to myself. That way I am always "current" in my training, and I don't have to deal with any headaches getting records up to date.

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When I was last called to help with the SLS training, both Cub and Scoutmaster, I was disappointed to note the curriculum had been cut significantly. See the appropriate threads here for details. The reason seemed to be (1) deal only with what SMs are officially responsible for (cut out discussion of finance, for instance) and (2) It was "too long" before.

 

 

 

 

ROTFL!

 

Obviously those complaining Specific Training is too long have never gone through the old SMF. 1 Full Day mixed classroom and outdoors, 1 night time classroom that incorporated a model meeting, and one full weekend ( Friday thru Sunday) camp out. It was spread out over a month, and you were "encouraged" to have a patrol meeting in there too.

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For ten years I taught Webelos outdoor training when it incorporated an overnight.  Once they cut the program so there was no overnight, I stopped.  When one has a ton of Webelos leaders who had never spent a night outdoors under canvas and they were expected to take a group of young boys out into the woods to do that????  I could no longer justify in my mind the validity of the training.  It was time to move on.

 

The cutting of training to make it convenient to the participants is to the point where having training is really just a legal term, not anything of any real value in terms of gaining any sort of valuable expertise on the subject.

 

 When was the last time anyone taught a class to adults or to scouts on how to sharpen an ax?  Can anyone tell me why a full ax, and 3/4 ax, a hand ax and a belt ax are all sharpened differently?  Probably not, because BSA no longer teaches the use of axes anymore.  Don't have time.  :)

 

Oh, by the way, the last time I used an ax was back around Thanksgiving time, so it's no longer an everyday tool for me, maybe only once every couple of months.

Edited by Stosh

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 When was the last time anyone taught a class to adults or to scouts on how to sharpen an ax?  Can anyone tell me why a full ax, and 3/4 ax, a hand ax and a belt ax are all sharpened differently?  Probably not, because BSA no longer teaches the use of axes anymore.  Don't have time.  :)

 

Funny you mentioned this. When I last did IOLS, I reviewed both the syllabus AND then current BSA handbook. A LOT OF BASIC INFORMATION WAS MISSING FROM BOTH! (emphasis)  The instructors and I got together and reviewed what was missing, and sources to get them. A lot of that missing info we included came from previous BSHBs and field books. A few things I found online which I liked better. To include this info, we created a pamphlet to be handed out.

 

For axe usage, we used an circa 1950s USFS pamphlet to give additional info.

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For ten years I taught Webelos outdoor training when it incorporated an overnight.  Once they cut the program so there was no overnight, I stopped.  When one has a ton of Webelos leaders who had never spent a night outdoors under canvas and they were expected to take a group of young boys out into the woods to do that????  I could no longer justify in my mind the validity of the training.  It was time to move on.

 

The cutting of training to make it convenient to the participants is to the point where having training is really just a legal term, not anything of any real value in terms of gaining any sort of valuable expertise on the subject.

 

 When was the last time anyone taught a class to adults or to scouts on how to sharpen an ax?  Can anyone tell me why a full ax, and 3/4 ax, a hand ax and a belt ax are all sharpened differently?  Probably not, because BSA no longer teaches the use of axes anymore.  Don't have time.  :)

I'm not sure how much weight a retired scouters opinion should carry when discussing how much weekend free time a young parent with a full time job should be willing to give up just to volunteer for their son's unit. As a past member of the Council Training Committee and District membership committee, I can say a few hours away from home on weekends makes a big difference in the number of parents deciding to volunteer their time. And it is getting harder every year. A huge reason Webelos suffers from lack of volunteers is because Bear leaders who are usually mothers typically have no interest in camping, cooking and teaching Boy Scout skills. Now add to that angxiety a weekend away from their family for training in the hot or cold outdoors. Not surprisingly many quit hoping some dad will takeover. And many times none step up. 

 

I worked hard with the training committees trying to figure out ways of getting volunteers trained without taking so much of their family time. But it is a huge huge challenge. This doesn't help the Webelos problem so much, but maybe troops should to be expected to carry more of the training load. Our troop requires all new ASMs to attend the totin chit class with the new scouts which is taught by youth training team. I used to teach Woods Tools at IOLS and while I used the totin chit lesson plan, it was really more of an introduction because schedule didn't permit thorough training. Not to mention additional instruction from instructors who had specific skills and knowledge beyond published manuals like sharpening a 3/4 ax. 

 

The demands of parents today are a huge challenge for the BSA to qualify unskilled parents to take responsibility for other parents sons. No easy solution.

 

Barry

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I recently signed up for the SM specific classroom thing at our University of Scouting coming up soon, even though I have not been asked to take on any job with the troop (except MBC).

 

This is the first year my son will be eligible for Uof Scouting, and to encourage him to attend I wanted to attend again too.  But since I have been the last few years, there were few classes I found interesting, so I signed up for the SM Leader training that they are running currently.  It seems like it's the most applicable course for my situation right now....  I can't say i'm really excited about sitting in a classroom all day, but hopefully it will be at least entertaining.  Hopefully not the snore fest my baloo class was.

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My DC an I as UC are the only two trained in our district as UC.  Class was scheduled for early February to get all our new UC's up to speed and trained.  .....    ...... The class was canceled, no one signed up for the training.......    Time to water down the training to fit into RT time for the new UC's.

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My DC an I as UC are the only two trained in our district as UC.  Class was scheduled for early February to get all our new UC's up to speed and trained.  .....    ...... The class was canceled, no one signed up for the training.......    Time to water down the training to fit into RT time for the new UC's.

Hmm, to me this says more about your District Commissioner than the new Unit Commissioners. A good DC will not only recruit abled bodied volunteers, they also guide them with be expectations, instructions, training and pep talks. I used to recruit our UCs and I wouldn't even bother with someone who refused training. 

 

In my opinion the DC has more power to make change than any other person from the DE on down. But getting the right person for that job is very challenging.

 

Barry

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Thank your son for me.  I appreciate him taking his Eagle charge seriously.

 

It's funny to me that you think he is Eagle.  He has three partial merit badges and his Eagle Project to do. 

He has 2.5 months to complete it all but we will see if that gets done.   My AS asked permission to be his pain in the butt until he gets it. 

I laughed and said you do not need my permission.   Wish he would have listen to me since I told him and all scout from the troop to not wait until the last minute.

I did and did not get to enjoy wearing my eagle rank on my scout uniform.     Oh course if he does not get Eagle that is fine because he has learned the important things in scouting.  Leadership, skills and self confidence and they are the highest rank in the BSA.  

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....

I did and did not get to enjoy wearing my eagle rank on my scout uniform.     Oh course if he does not get Eagle that is fine because he has learned the important things in scouting.  Leadership, skills and self confidence and they are the highest rank in the BSA.  

off topic comment, but I'm disappointed that my son will not get to wear his AOL patch on his cub uniform.  I don't think he really cares, but I'm disappointed....

This is something I pushed for strongly when I was CM (presenting the award when earned, rather than waiting for the B&G/AOL Graduation/Bridge Crossover marathon of a day)

I thought the DL was on board with the idea too.

I even picked up the AOL patches for the den when i was at the scout shop in late November, in preparation to present in December (my son finished his AOL requirements with the roll of the calendar into december, since he only had to wait for the time requirement having done everything else...

but sadly, the DL chose not to present it at the last pack meeting or den meetings.

 

I really wish that I would have just held my son's patch and sewed it on.... just so he could show up at a few meetings with it on..... but truthfully, I don't think he cares so no biggie I guess

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...

 

I really wish that I would have just held my son's patch and sewed it on.... just so he could show up at a few meetings with it on..... but truthfully, I don't think he cares so no biggie I guess

The tough thing about awards ... Figuring what matters most to the boys:

AoL on his cub uni vs. getting it at crossover with his den?

Eagle Court of Honor or just having his troop at Ganny's for graduation party?

Wearing that Eagle patch at camp or waiting until the CoH for mom to pin the medal on?

Leaving time in the schedule to finish Eagle, or training so he can legitimately hold that ASM + Trained patch right out the gate?

 

The answers are never the same for every boy. Except ...

 

"Son, it's about time you started seeing your own patches on!"

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  Oh course if he does not get Eagle that is fine because he has learned the important things in scouting.  Leadership, skills and self confidence and they are the highest rank in the BSA.  

My apologies for misunderstanding your comments, but somehow I got the impression he was Eagle.  As your last line attests, maybe that's where I assumed incorrectly.

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off topic comment, but I'm disappointed that my son will not get to wear his AOL patch on his cub uniform.  I don't think he really cares, but I'm disappointed....

This is something I pushed for strongly when I was CM (presenting the award when earned, rather than waiting for the B&G/AOL Graduation/Bridge Crossover marathon of a day)

I thought the DL was on board with the idea too.

I even picked up the AOL patches for the den when i was at the scout shop in late November, in preparation to present in December (my son finished his AOL requirements with the roll of the calendar into december, since he only had to wait for the time requirement having done everything else...

but sadly, the DL chose not to present it at the last pack meeting or den meetings.

 

I really wish that I would have just held my son's patch and sewed it on.... just so he could show up at a few meetings with it on..... but truthfully, I don't think he cares so no biggie I guess

 

@@blw2,  Not a big deal, I like the AOL patch better on the Boy Scout uniform anyway.  The AOL knot he wears on his adult uniform hasn't been received yet, but it is waiting for him when he turns 18.  It'll look good next to his Eagle knot when he shows up at a troop meeting ready to pass on his experience to the next generation.  Maybe you'll be able to watch your grandson sew his AOL patch on a Cub Scout uniform......   I'm with @@qwazse on having the boys all learn to sew. 

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off topic comment, but I'm disappointed that my son will not get to wear his AOL patch on his cub uniform.  I don't think he really cares, but I'm disappointed....

This is something I pushed for strongly when I was CM (presenting the award when earned, rather than waiting for the B&G/AOL Graduation/Bridge Crossover marathon of a day)

 

 

Don't be, in fact in all of my time in Scouting, I've only seen recruiting and uniform materials with the AOL badge on the uniform. That's because as soon as they earn AOL, they can become Boy Scouts. 

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Don't be, in fact in all of my time in Scouting, I've only seen recruiting and uniform materials with the AOL badge on the uniform. That's because as soon as they earn AOL, they can become Boy Scouts. 

 

yeah, that's the way our pack has always done it... but it ain't true. Well for some who wait till the last minute to pencil whip the last few things maybe.... my son was finished last year with everything but the time requirement, troop visits, and the SM conference with the SM of the troop he might want to join. So he earned it basically 2 months before our early crossover is planned (3-months before the more typical crossover date)

 

and yes, very good point about letting him sew it on.  He knows how in theory at least.....

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