When can a scout begin working on the Scout Rank?

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Of course that assumes the new handbooks will be available in January as promised...  So the other question is if the boy has the Scout badge already then he is working on Tenderfoot. Would he have to first earn Scout rank before Tenderfoot then?

My understanding is that if the youth has completed the Scout badge (old requirements) before Jan. 1 (and is therefore considered to be "working" on Tenderfoot before Jan. 1), he may then do Tenderfoot, 2nd Class and First Class under the old requirements until Jan. 1, 2017. Any ranks not completed by then must be done under the new requirements. Once he makes First Class, he must do Star (etc.) under the new requirements.

 

However, if he has NOT completed the Scout badge (old requirements) before Jan. 1, he must then do the Scout rank (new requirements) and all other ranks under the new requirements.

 

That's my understanding, anyway.

 

(Later edit:  Struck through incorrect information, see post below.)

Edited December 9, 2015 by NJCubScouter

[mashmaster 783]

My understanding is that if the youth has completed the Scout badge (old requirements) before Jan. 1 (and is therefore considered to be "working" on Tenderfoot before Jan. 1), he may then do Tenderfoot, 2nd Class and First Class under the old requirements until Jan. 1, 2017. Any ranks not completed by then must be done under the new requirements. Once he makes First Class, he must do Star (etc.) under the new requirements.

 

However, if he has NOT completed the Scout badge (old requirements) before Jan. 1, he must then do the Scout rank (new requirements) and all other ranks under the new requirements.

 

That's my understanding, anyway.

That seems odd to me

[qwazse 4342]

That seems odd to me

Me too. But try parsing this ...

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/program_update/pdf/Transitioning_New_Requirements_2016.pdf

"For 2016:

• Boys joining on or after Jan. 1, 2016 MUST use the new requirements.

• Boys who have joined prior to Jan. 1, 2016:

• Who are working on the Scout badge MAY continue to work on the existing requirements, but MUST convert to the new requirements upon completion of the Scout badge.

• Who are working on Tenderfoot through First Class MAY continue to work on the existing requirements, but MUST convert to the new requirements upon attaining First Class.

• Who have completed First Class MAY complete the rank they are currently working on in the existing requirements, but then MUST convert to the new requirements for subsequent ranks."

 

Given that, in concept, a boy starts on Tenderfoot the minute he completes Scout, if your boys join their troop and rank up before New Years, they can work with the old T2F requirements for one more year. Which is stupid. Just get everone working on the new requirements ASAP.

 

Have fun.

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

I disagree with having everyone starting on the new requirements. You do have Scouts out there working on T-2-1 under one set of requirements. It would not be fair for those Scouts to have them work  and then all of a sudden have the requirements change on them. A transition period is needed.

[Krampus 696]

That seems odd to me

He's spot on. BSA doesn't really want units starting new scouts out on the old 2015 requirements now. They request that units start new scouts on the 2016 requirements.

 

Current scouts not yet FC have until next December to finish their trail to first class under the 2015 requirements. Once done with FC you must use the new requirements. Scouts above FC can finish their present rank using the old request rents. Once done they use the new requirements.

 

As of Jan 2017 everyone uses the new requirements.

[Krampus 696]

I disagree with having everyone starting on the new requirements. You do have Scouts out there working on T-2-1 under one set of requirements. It would not be fair for those Scouts to have them work  and then all of a sudden have the requirements change on them. A transition period is needed.

See my reply above. There is a transition.

 

In essence scouts joining this recruiting cycle use the new requirements. Scouts currently on scouts finish their current rank on the old requirements. TFC scouts can finish up to FC on the old requirements. After FC, or achieving their next rank, everyone must use the new requirements. After Jan 2017 everyone uses the new requirements regardless.

 

Easy.

[Stosh 3452]

It's not like anyone is transitioning from a sports car to a semi-tractor rig.  There is not that much variance in the new requirements.  Okay, Little Johnny did an old requirement that isn't required anymore?  So what!  He just knows more than the next guy.  And now he has a new requirement?  Okay, again, what'll that take to complete?  Another week or so?  The requirement changed?  He should have enough experience to work through the differences without a problem, if he hadn't started that requirement and it's changed, then just do the new one.

 

I'm thinking there's a mountain being built here because of the inflexibility of the adults to make the course corrections.  I'm thinking the "hardships" this is going to place on boys isn't going to amount to much in the off chance that some boy isn't going to make his Eagle.

 

And if there's the off-chance that one is really running a boy-led program, why are all the adults in a tizzy?  Offer up the challenge to the boys and let them come up with a solution.  Train 'em.  Trust 'em.  Let them lead!

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

_{I was responding to this comment. "Just get everone working on the new requirements ASAP."} 

 

_{I admit I may be overly concerned about the rank changes because of a situation that happened in my district. We had a Scout get denied a Life BOR, which affected him getting Eagle before 18. Long story short, the troop he was originally in allowed him to use the pre-2009 BSHB requirements  that were in effect when he joined, and did not tell him about changes to the various rank requirements. It was only after that troop went to Trail's Life, and he joined another troop that he found out that there was still more to do Life. It was discovered at the SM Conference. This delay caused him to miss the "6 months as a Life..." Eagle requirement as his Life BOR was at the 17 years 7 months mark.}

 

_{Thankfully he received a waiver, earned his Eagle, and is active as an ASM with the troop, and one of the chapter vice-chiefs.}  

[Krampus 696]

I'm thinking there's a mountain being built here because of the inflexibility of the adults to make the course corrections.  I'm thinking the "hardships" this is going to place on boys isn't going to amount to much in the off chance that some boy isn't going to make his Eagle.

 

 

Correct. There's already a spreadsheet someone created to easily track the two groups. It is no different than 2009/2010 changes. We managed through those just fine.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

I posted some incorrect information above, which I have stricken out in that post.

 

A new Scout who began working on the Scout badge (old requirements) before Jan. 1 but has not completed it as of that date may continue working on that badge. He does not to earn the new Scout rank. After completing the Scout badge he must then use the new requirements for all other ranks.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

[Krampus 696]

I posted some incorrect information above, which I have stricken out in that post.

 

A new Scout who began working on the Scout badge (old requirements) before Jan. 1 but has not completed it as of that date may continue working on that badge. He does not to earn the new Scout rank. After completing the Scout badge he must then use the new requirements for all other ranks.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

Unless that Scout (who has earned Scout under the 2015 requirements) and starts working on Tenderfoot *before* Jan 1, 2016. In that case he may use the 2015 requirements until he completes FC. If he does not complete FC in 2016 he must use the 2016 requirements.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/program_update/pdf/Transitioning_New_Requirements_2016.pdf

[blw2 433]

I'm in this exact same position.  My son's den (I'm now the ADL) is crossing over late January

they have been done with everything since last year, except the time requirements.... so as of December my son and most of the others have earned their AOL

 

A few weeks ago, i had the idea that I should dedicate part of a meeting to getting started, or at least aware, of what the new requirements are, that they will need to start on.  i wish the books were available, but at least we have the new requirements on-line.

Anyway, i was thinking a lot of these have to do with memorizing and understanding so that they can "explain in their own words..".  No reason they can't get on with studying taht stuff now, right?  Be better prepared that the average non-AOL new scout, right?

 

Well, in searching for ways to make this more interesting or fun, it was pointed out to me that maybe we shouldn't be stressing requirements at all.  Maybe we should just let the boys do what scouts do.  In doing that, they will complete requirements without even realizing it.  More fun that way too, right?  Besides, mot boys, at least mine, don't care a hill of beans about ticking off the requirements.  He just wants to have fun.

 

And while I'm reading BP's Aides to Scoutmastership, he makes this point very well and it just cemented what was suggested to me.