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Daped01

Arrow of Light Elective adventures

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Hello good friends,

 

I have a brand new 5th grade scout, he's the lone AOL scout I have mixed in with 3 4th grade Webelos scouts in a den.   We had a transitional campout with our affiliated troop a couple of weekends ago and worked on adventure loops.  Cast iron chef, and Webelos Walkabout were completed over the weekend.  Can those be used as  AOL Scout's elective adventures being he was never a webelos scout to earn them (or anything similar in the old program)?

 

my instinct is to do it and award him the pins since its all new to him.  I just wanted to see how the masses felt about it  :blink:

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Its a tough decision considering the AOL was the Cubs top award.  Hard presses for someone to come in one year and earn it in my opinion.  There are some that are dedicated.  Its like a 17 year only coming in and earning Eagle

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Yes they can.  I can't find an official source, but I did find something in the Guide to Advancement that is close:

A Webelos rank earned as of June 1, 2015,
and moving to Arrow of Light may also
substitute any of the new program WEBELOS
required adventures for the three required
electives of Arrow of Light

I know I've seen it somewhere, but can't find it in the handbook, Leader's Guide, or FAQ.  I'm fairly certain that the version I saw was "For boys joining Scouting in the fifth grade..."  I'll keep looking and will post back if I find it, but to be honest the BSA doesn't track Cub Scout advancement that closely and as you can see above this is considered acceptable in at least the one case, so why wouldn't it be in the other?

 

Found it on Slide 15 here:  http://www.scouting.org/filestore/program_update/pdf/2015_Program_Change_Overview_Cub_Scouts_Boy_Scouts.pdf

 

Boys joining Cub Scouts after May 31, 2015 and meeting the qualifications to join an AOL den

  • Shall utilize the new program requirements and handbook
  • They MAY substitute any of the new program WEBELOS required adventures for the three required electives of Arrow of Light
Edited by meyerc13

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I'm not completely up to speed with the detail of the new requirements.... but my read is that if you consider it worthy, award them and count them

He's new.  It's cubs, He's making progress towards "adventures"

so what does it really matter?

 

This business about AOL being the "Top Award".  It aint that way any more with the new program, and personally I think all of that was hype anyway.  

It wasn't that hard to get in the old program, it was just the natural thing to do after WEBELOS while waiting for crossover.  My son earned his early on last year, with the exception of the time requirement after 4th grade, the troop visit, and the SM conference.... all not long after finishing the WEBELOS badge.... and honestly he wasn't really trying all that hard.  To me earning the Compass Points would have been a much more challenging honor to claim.

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Thank you much, since it the requirements were naturally worked into our campout (boys just participating in fun scouting activities with the older boys, if we hadn't told them they were going to earn loops for what we did, they wouldn't have ever known.) I'm going to give him the credit for it.

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Thank you much, since it the requirements were naturally worked into our campout (boys just participating in fun scouting activities with the older boys, if we hadn't told them they were going to earn loops for what we did, they wouldn't have ever known.) I'm going to give him the credit for it.

I found most of cub advancement that way.

The boys didn't care about the advancement if they knew up front.  Wasn't really a motivator.

BUT when they earned something and didn't expect it, it was more exciting sometimes....

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Its a tough decision considering the AOL was the Cubs top award.  Hard presses for someone to come in one year and earn it in my opinion.  There are some that are dedicated.  Its like a 17 year only coming in and earning Eagle

 

 

I'm not completely up to speed with the detail of the new requirements.... but my read is that if you consider it worthy, award them and count them

He's new.  It's cubs, He's making progress towards "adventures"

so what does it really matter?

 

This business about AOL being the "Top Award".  It aint that way any more with the new program, and personally I think all of that was hype anyway.  

It wasn't that hard to get in the old program, it was just the natural thing to do after WEBELOS while waiting for crossover.  My son earned his early on last year, with the exception of the time requirement after 4th grade, the troop visit, and the SM conference.... all not long after finishing the WEBELOS badge.... and honestly he wasn't really trying all that hard.  To me earning the Compass Points would have been a much more challenging honor to claim.

 

I agree with blw2 here.  AOL is now really just another rank.  Top Award is currently is a misnomer.  "Final Award" might be a more accurate term under the new program.  And I disagree with JasonG172 about it being akin to a 17 year old joining and becoming Eagle.  Eagle is a cumulative accomplishment.  AOL currently has nothing that is cumulative.  There are no prerequisites to it under the current standards.

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In regards to the original topic, the Webelos Badge required adventures can be used as electives for the new  Webelos working on AOL since he didn't get a chance to use them for the Webelos Badge.  IMHO, I would use the analogy of the Boy Scout MBs required Eagle. If a Scout has both Emergency Prep MB and Lifesaving MB, only one can be used as a required MB, the other can be used as an elective.

 

 

In regards to AOL is now just another rank, I hate to say it but I agree. Although you never needed to have the Wolf and Bear Badges, and Tiger Cub when it became fully integrated into Cub Scouts in the mid-late 1990s, to get AOL in my day, You still needed Bobcat and Webelos in order to get AOL. I do not know how the Cubs feel, but I know a lot of leaders do not like it. However if the Cubs' reaction to a brand new Scout getting AOL in a year is anything like what happened when one of my Scouts crossed over 6 months ahead of his den at the end of May because he was 10.5 and had met all the other requirements, it will be one of confusion, puzzlement, and anger.

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I know it isn't part of the original topic, but since several people have mentioned it I want to respond.  Last year, to earn Arrow of Light you needed to complete 8 pins (3 for Webelos, 5 for Arrow of Light).  Under the new program you have to earn 7.  Is that really such a huge change that everyone needs to be up in arms over it?  To be fair, now the Religious requirements and Scouting knowledge are considered pins, but there are still five others that a boy needs to earn, same as it was before.  The only difference is not earning three pins for Webelos like under the old program.

 

To be honest, the only change I wish they would make for a new boy who joins an AoL den as their first den is making some of the Webelos required adventures required for AoL instead of electives.  Outdoor cooking, hiking, and first aid are essential skills for Boy Scouts.  I guess this ties my post back to the original question... his new AoL Scout has already done two of the three.  If I were his DL, I would highly recommend he complete First Responder as his third elective.

 

Other than that, I don't see how anyone can say the AoL is that much less than it was before.  Completing additional elective pins won't better prepare a boy for Boy Scouts, and last year our Webelos Den completed their three pins on a Webelos Pin Day in November and then gave up on advancement for the rest of the year.  For new boys joining that den for the first time, if they go back and do the three Webelos required I mention above as electives I think they will be just as prepared for Boy Scouts as the boys who earned their Webelos badge last year under the old program.

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I don't think that those that were up in arms about the change because of the level of effort, but rather the level of committment.

 

While a Scout can join at any age appropriate time; with the old Webelos program being 12-18+ months; the leaders more so than the scouts have a perception of it being wrong that a boy coming in right at the end and in six months, with no prior scouting, the boy can get the coveted arrow of light (an award that they can continue to acknowledge into their adult scouter years with a knot).

 

To them is was like allowing someone to earn an eagle award, just by doing a couple of merit badges; and not by years of learning and growing in the unit.

 

The original goal for this was so that we did not discoruage 5th graders from joining (and thus becoming potential boy scouts) by not having something they could earn; but even that goal was lost when they put back the 6 month active reqirement (i.e. ok, you can earn AOL, but only if we recruit you by September/October), once again, no motivation to a 5th grader joining later.

 

My personal preference would have been that AOL would stil require earning the Webelos Badge first, but that a 5th grade student could still go back and earn the Webelos badge (like the old system).

 

In the end, very few of the Scouts actually put all this together (to be angry with the change), they are usually just happy to have another friend in the den.

Edited by gumbymaster

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I wasn't "up in arms" about it....

 

I agree with blw2 here.  AOL is now really just another rank.  Top Award is currently is a misnomer.  "Final Award" might be a more accurate term under the new program.  And I disagree with JasonG172 about it being akin to a 17 year old joining and becoming Eagle.  Eagle is a cumulative accomplishment.  AOL currently has nothing that is cumulative.  There are no prerequisites to it under the current standards.

 

Actually what i meant was that i never thought it was a "top award".  I personally think that even in the old system it was just the next award level.  It wasn't hard to get.  And I think all that top award stuff was just hype.
Getting all the compass points would be much harder.  How is that not the top award?

 

I think that perhaps this business of being able to wear it on the scout uniform, or as a knot on adults, is what sets it apart.... when really it was never that big of a deal.

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