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I need thoughts on problems with a den leader


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Also writing from experience having been Assistant Den Leader, Assistant Cubmaster, Cubmaster, & Defacto Committee Chair.... and having worked with Scouters that refuse to play with the "program"

This is a self-correcting problem. Plan a big crossover ceremony early next year. 'Til then, smile. Be gracious. Say, "well bless your heart" a lot.

Agree with the others that this is not a hill to die on.   Encourage the DL to keep the bar raised for all the boys to the best of her ability. Accept that as a CC, you may have to endure a little m

Woe to the troop that inherits this problem.

Typically when these types of adults get in a troop, they either shape up, or are shipped out. Most troops don't put up with it. I know of one such den leader that was in three different troops in three years before she finally just quit the BSA (our troop was her first). 

 

Barry

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I really hope @@jbelanger86 checks back in with an update.

 

Also, I was kinda thinking along the lines of @@CalicoPenn re getting one's own house in order.....

working two positions can be bad.... and I would add that having two (or more) of the key 3 positions in one family can be bad on top of bad.  Not that @@jbelanger86 would do anything wrong, but it can be

   a) a drain on the family

   b) other folks might wrongfully suspect impropriety

 

Yep, I'd drop the ACM as @@CalicoPenn suggests.... or maybe even better - give the Committee Chair role to one of the many other parents in the pack, and simply back up your husband as ACM.  I can imagine that would be a good team.

 

As much as I hated it, I was CM without an assistant AND without an active CC..... so I sort of wore all three hats to a degree (along with a few other hats from the committee)..... although I tried to be very conscious of not wearing the other hats any more than I absolutely had to.  My point is, CM can be done without a formal ACM if necessary.

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I guess I should have cleared it up, I am registered as the committee chair. I only have the name asst cubmaster because that was my position before becoming CC and all the parents knew me as that. 

 

We did have the meeting last night and it was very unproductive. I think that the DE, UC, and the other guy that was there (not sure of his actual title) I think they are all wrong. Their solution to this problem was simple in their eyes. 

 

So we had two boys sign up, two NEW webelos 2. When they first signed up, this den leader immediately spoke with the scoutmaster in the troop because she wanted us to ship them down there without letting them have a choice. Now, because we told her that she couldn't make that choice for them, she has decided that she wants ONE of them. She doesn't care about the other boy (who has chosen to be in the new webelos 2 den and work the new book for AOL)

 

The one boy she has chosen is her "ammunition" so to say. She says this boy just wants to be with his friends. 

 

Basically the solution that was brought to the table last night was to take the new webelos that she actually wants, and allow him to join her den and tag along to all the activities that they are doing to earn AOL. He will not earn any advancement. Basically to me it sounds like my district is undermining the BSA's new program rules. Stating that all new boys must work the new program, or go to the troop. 

 

Im all for following the rules and this just doesnt seem right. It doesnt set well with me. This pack, district, council is better than this, or it should be. They shouldnt be "letting it slide" Scouts is about working a program, all advancements aside. The program is designed to teach them all the things they need to know for BS and help them grow as young men, with this "solution" they think they have, I dont think they care. Im dissapointed. 

 

I hear you all when you say to "let it go" but I just dont feel right doing that. Its not fair to the boys that they arent getting the program they deserve, then let alone let another boy distract them from AOL because he just wants to hang out. 

 

Maybe im all wrong but i have talked to the council, and national, and im trying to get some answers on whtat the new program says to do in a situation like this. 

 

Oh and did i mention that DL is refusing to get Baloo to take her boys on a webelos campout?

 

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Im not sure how its so easy for some of you to just "let it go" - I really have a problem with people not "doing their best" for these boys. That, for me, is really hard to ignore :(

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BALOO is for Pack campouts.  If the Webelos Den Leader has OWLS (Outdoor Webelos Leader Skils training, although here its the same thing as the Boy Scout IOLS), she doesn't need BALOO for a Webelos Den campout.

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Technically, they don't HAVE to work on the new program, they just CAN'T work from the old program.  If the Scout and his family do not care about Advacement or the AOL rank, there really is no problem, and the boy can do any of the activities the rest of his den are doing.

 

If you really want to be a stickler for the rules, your single AOL Webelos, CANNOT be a den.  (I forget if it is three or four members required).  So in the realm of between a rock and a hard place, some rule has to be bent if the Scout is to participate fully.

 

In the end it needs to come down to what is best for the scout(s), that fits our safety guidelines.  There cannot be absolutes because one rule will often conflict with another and someone has to prioritize which one wins.  We all do our best, and I think that you have done so.  Go forward with a clear conscience. 

 

It is always the battles where we know we were in the right but still cannot win that most stick in our craw.  Do what you can to learn from the experience, and figure out a path to improve or avoid the issue in the future.

 

Neither BALOO nor OWLS is REQUIRED to take Webelos camping.  BALOO is required only for Pack camping, both are recommended to Webelos camping.  My IOLS and OWLS were very diffrent skills and goals.

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Im not sure how its so easy for some of you to just "let it go" - I really have a problem with people not "doing their best" for these boys. That, for me, is really hard to ignore :(

It is also for the boys and sometimes our passion for the program and to do our best gets in the way of what is best for the boys. 

 

Those of us who have worked with a lot of volunteers very much appreciate the time and effort you are giving to the program. However, doing your best also means living the Scout Oath and Law. You do a disservice to yourself lashing out at those on the forum who have many many years experience working with both adults and scouts. If you don't like the answers to your question, you only need to respond with a thank you for your time. 

 

Of course there is so much here we can't know because we aren't personal to the situation, but  based on your words, the irony here is that your personality and the den leader's personality appear  much the same. I teach in our adult leader courses that adults have to be humble to become good scout leaders. I've never met a scout leader who was never wrong.

 

I hope your situation works out for the best of everyone. Keep us informed. 

 

YIS

 

Barry

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He is the COR for both the troop and pack. This whole pack/troop has been messed up for years and we can only fix the pack right now. I have heard from many people that our troop is nothing but an eagle factory and I have witnessed it myself. The boys do not even cook for themselves when they go camping. They have no patrol and no den cheifs. I just cant worry about what is going on in the troop when I have enough on my plate with the pack and all its drama. I hate drama :(

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It sounds like you have a lot of good ideas and a lot of energy.  You certianly seem to have a lot of talent at recruiting.

 

Maybe you should consider, for next year, starting a new pack and then, as they get older a new troop. The DE should be more than happy to help you find a chartered organization, and it sounds like you could very quickly put a strong unit together - as long as you remember not to do everything yourself (or just you and the husband).  Make use of the new parents you recruit.

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Those of us who have worked with a lot of volunteers very much appreciate the time and effort you are giving to the program. However, doing your best also means living the Scout Oath and Law. You do a disservice to yourself lashing out at those on the forum who have many many years experience working with both adults and scouts. If you don't like the answers to your question, you only need to respond with a thank you for your time. 

 

 

 

 

 

I never meant to sound like I was being rude, I really just wanted to understand how its so easy. I find myself in such confict with this situation. I came here for advice, i would never be rude to someone trying to help, i hope that clears it up a bit.

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I never meant to sound like I was being rude, I really just wanted to understand how its so easy. I find myself in such confict with this situation. I came here for advice, i would never be rude to someone trying to help, i hope that clears it up a bit.

 

I didn't read any of your posts as rude or even close to lashing out. I think it's just a case of this type of communication failing to include tone

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...

 

I hear you all when you say to "let it go" but I just dont feel right doing that. Its not fair to the boys that they arent getting the program they deserve, then let alone let another boy distract them from AOL because he just wants to hang out. 

 

...

Im not sure how its so easy for some of you to just "let it go" - I really have a problem with people not "doing their best" for these boys. That, for me, is really hard to ignore :(

Oh, there are a lot of times when it is hard to resist typing a negative emoticon. I can be one for minute details. (See the fine-print-parsing discussions on pins and nameplates and neckerchiefs.)

 

Maybe having lost a scout in a fatal traffic accident and a sibling of a venturer to suicide changed my perspective a little.

 

But long before those, I realized that some square pegs can't fit into round holes and there ain't time to shave every edge. So let the square peg do it's squarish thing and go back to the wood pile.

 

If you can find someone with time to work the new program for your newbies ... do it. Otherwise, there are bigger fish to fry.

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