Scout Cooking

[DuctTape 1230]

Advanced SERE training. Done!

[DuctTape 1230]

Agreed Stosh. I have my grandfathers scout mess kit. The frying pan portion is actually steel.

 

My own personal mess kit isnt a bsa one, but a few items I put together myself which can accomplish the tasks.

[Stosh 3452]

Agreed Stosh. I have my grandfathers scout mess kit. The frying pan portion is actually steel.

 

My own personal mess kit isnt a bsa one, but a few items I put together myself which can accomplish the tasks.

 

A Scout is Courteous and Kind...... MY mess kit has the steel fry pan and I DIDN'T GET IT FROM MY GRANDFATHER!

 

My mother taught me to be nice to old people....

[blw2 433]

In my opinion dutchcovens are easy. Plus they pack terribly. Far too often DO cooking is perceived as the pinnacle, when in reality not using a DO is more of a challenge and often more appropriate (like when not plop camping). To really think outside the box, backpack 5 miles in without a cooler or dutch oven and still cook great meals. DO cooking is great for base camp, but when on patrol one can still eat very well.

 

That's one aspect of these sorts of discussions that bother me.....

I guess I'm more of a wanna be backpack camper, since I've done far more plop or tailgate camping in my time... But I enjoy it and wish that I had more opportunity & skill to really get out there off the grid...

So aside from the lesson of teamwork and such in this plop patrol cooking, I think it would be great if scouts showed more focus on backpack style cooking, and even on an individual level of cooking for one or only a few.... such as will likely be done in their future non-scout camping

 

.... just like Stosh explains....

 

My ASM has severe diet restrictions so I'm on my own with my meals.

 

I Dutch oven cook in my aluminum mess kit all the time.  It is a skill I learned back when I was a kid in scouting.  I have done the baking bread, blueberry muffins in the morning, and hobo dinners with onion gravy and mashed potatoes and glazed carrots all using just the mess kit.  Sweet and sour pork over rice is always a good sell for me as well.  Bisquick biscuits done up in the mess kit do well with whatever fruit is on the bushes nearby too. 

 

Otherwise, it's the aluminum DO that gets the work out because I love my blueberry muffins and the mess kit is too small for nice even baking of 2-3 muffins.

 

Mess kit cooking has become rather passe over the years especially since they have gone to the stupid plastic knob on the boiler and the even more ridiculous plastic cup.  Antique stores are about the only place nowadays to find a good mess kit, but they are worth their weight in gold.

This is the kind of outdoor cooking skill i wish I would have gained in scouts.

 

Baking in a mess kit, that's a new one for me.....  

Seems like there would be way too many hot spots and temp control would be hard...

 

Baking being the one big novelty of dutch oven cooking that I think most folks find impressive.....

 

But I sure would like to take a few lessons from you @@Stosh!

 

I had one of those aluminum kits a long time ago, but sadly never learned to use it at your level.  I think I'll keep my eye out for a good one!

[Eagledad 2777]

That's one aspect of these sorts of discussions that bother me.....

I guess I'm more of a wanna be backpack camper, since I've done far more plop or tailgate camping in my time... But I enjoy it and wish that I had more opportunity & skill to really get out there off the grid...

So aside from the lesson of teamwork and such in this plop patrol cooking, I think it would be great if scouts showed more focus on backpack style cooking, and even on an individual level of cooking for one or only a few.... such as will likely be done in their future non-scout camping

 

 

We are a back packing troop and may I suggest that when it comes time to aquire patrol gear, consider more on side of back packing style gear. Keep in mind that gear dropped from a plane at 35,000 ft will likely suffer less damage than a years worth of use by scouts.

 

Barry

[DuctTape 1230]

That's one aspect of these sorts of discussions that bother me.....

I guess I'm more of a wanna be backpack camper, since I've done far more plop or tailgate camping in my time... But I enjoy it and wish that I had more opportunity & skill to really get out there off the grid...

So aside from the lesson of teamwork and such in this plop patrol cooking, I think it would be great if scouts showed more focus on backpack style cooking, and even on an individual level of cooking for one or only a few.... such as will likely be done in their future non-scout camping

 

.... just like Stosh explains....

 

This is the kind of outdoor cooking skill i wish I would have gained in scouts.

 

Baking in a mess kit, that's a new one for me.....  

Seems like there would be way too many hot spots and temp control would be hard...

 

Baking being the one big novelty of dutch oven cooking that I think most folks find impressive.....

 

But I sure would like to take a few lessons from you @@Stosh!

 

I had one of those aluminum kits a long time ago, but sadly never learned to use it at your level.  I think I'll keep my eye out for a good one!

 

 

 

Temp control and hots spots is what makes baking (and cooking general) in Al mess kits the challenge. Which is why I said DO cooking was easy. It is relative. 

 

I encourage my patrols leaders to have their inexperienced scouts learn to cook for themselves first before making a group meal. Some of the patrols over the years liked it so much they rarely had a patrol cook, they would pair up or cook individually within their patrol. Sometimes it was everyone having the same thing. other times it was completely different. They said they liked to do it their own way, meaning some liked certain ingredients that others didn't. I remember once they made pizzas; each kid wanted different toppings. They had fun. Which is the most important thing in my book. 

[Stosh 3452]

Temp control and hots spots is what makes baking (and cooking general) in Al mess kits the challenge. Which is why I said DO cooking was easy. It is relative. 

 

I encourage my patrols leaders to have their inexperienced scouts learn to cook for themselves first before making a group meal. Some of the patrols over the years liked it so much they rarely had a patrol cook, they would pair up or cook individually within their patrol. Sometimes it was everyone having the same thing. other times it was completely different. They said they liked to do it their own way, meaning some liked certain ingredients that others didn't. I remember once they made pizzas; each kid wanted different toppings. They had fun. Which is the most important thing in my book. 

 

Hot spots are a result of not knowing the full limitations of the equipment one is using.

 

Making foil dinners?  How many use one sheet of foil and how many use two? Ever notice the difference?

 

How many people use spacers in the bottom of their Dutch Ovens and how many people whine about food sticking and making a mess of the DO?  How many people who don't use spacers in their DO put food right on the bottom of their oven at home?

 

People spend big bucks on teflon and ceramic no-stick cookware and I use cast iron.  My food slides off just as easily as theirs.

 

How many have tried something once, screwed it up and then quit.  With an attitude like that how did you get through kindergarten?

 

There are DO users that only use charcoal and others only use wood.  Those that use wood only use certain kinds of wood.  What if their favorite fuel source is not available?  Drag it from home?

 

 I once cooked all week long at summer camp using a homemade stove burning twigs the size of pencils or smaller.

 

How many people today even know how to cook on a campfire?  Sure the 2 burner Coleman whitegas and the single burner propane are really no different than the gas stove at home.

 

It's a little like the old mountain men of a long ago generation.  They carried flintlock weapons even well beyond the technological advances around the world.  Why?  They knew how to make black powder and they could find flint in any riverbed.  If they had percussion cap weapons and ran out of caps or lost their caps, they would starve to death and they knew it.

 

Know your equipment and more importantly, know how to use it.

 

If one were to be given the ingredients for a certain recipe and turned out into the woods, how many people could turn that into edible food and how many will turn it into charcoal on a stick?

[DuctTape 1230]

Could not agree more Stosh.

[Hedgehog 334]

In my opinion dutchcovens are easy. Plus they pack terribly. Far too often DO cooking is perceived as the pinnacle, when in reality not using a DO is more of a challenge and often more appropriate (like when not plop camping). To really think outside the box, backpack 5 miles in without a cooler or dutch oven and still cook great meals. DO cooking is great for base camp, but when on patrol one can still eat very well.

 

I agree.... to an extent.  There are a lot of Dutch Oven recipies that are easy (and delicious).  It gets a little more challenging when you try to do thing like braising meats before cooking or making apple pies or cakes using trivets.  To get really challenging, try baking bread in a Dutch Oven.  

 

Ultimately, the Dutch Oven is just a tool which has its usefullness judged based on the quality of the food you cook.

 

I think it would be great if scouts showed more focus on backpack style cooking, and even on an individual level of cooking for one or only a few.... such as will likely be done in their future non-scout camping

 

 

I disagree that backpacking would be the future non-scout camping.  I suspect that car camping with the wife and then kids may be more frequent -- at least until your son gets to Boy Scouts.  

 

Ultimately, most backpacking cooking these days is boiling water and putting it in a bag.  Whether that be a commercial freeze dried meal or homemade freezer bag cooking (see trailcooking.com for details).  My son and I have developed some good receipies that we cook while backpacking.  We do homemade (powdered) eggs and (precooked) sausage tortillas, (precooked) bacon and (powdered) egg croissants, pancakes, tuna fish wraps, PB&J wraps, (powdered) pesto chicken (from foil wrap) with couscous, (dehydrated) sloppy joes with Kraft Maccaroni and Cheese, (dehydrated) beef stew with polenta and my new favorite - Thanksgiving Dinner on the trail (freeze-dried turkey, gravy, stuffing, potatoes and a little bit of cranberry sauce).  We also have made blueberry muffins and chocolate cupcakes using the trail baking method (www.trailcooking.com/fauxbaker/).  However, it is really good just to dump some water in a bag and eat at the end of a long day on the trai (and more lightweight nad takes up less space).  

 

I think the cooking merit badge got it right -- home cooking is different than outdoor cooking which is different that cooking on a hike or trek.

[Stosh 3452]

I for one enjoy cooking at home and my skills over the years has made me a pretty good cook at the campfire.  Yes the DO is a plop camp piece of equipment and my aluminum DO does allow me to extend that further into the woods and especially with canoe/kayak camping on sandbars.

 

However, my idea of backpack cooking is more in line with survival cooking and cooking for calories for the trail.  It is not designed as a fine-dining outdoor experience.  There is nothing tasty about reconstituted freeze-dried anything.  I do beef jerky, I can handle trail mix, oatmeal and cream of wheat cereals are standard home fair easily transported to the trail.  But I would rather carry a can of beans than put up with freeze-dried.  I do the foraging for fresh food instead depending on the time of year and availability.  Fall backpacking with the woods full of berries is a nice break from just instant oatmeal.  There are a lot of nutritious greens in the spring out there as well and a lot of nuts in season as well.   One has to be careful of some foods like wild rice that is regulated by law.  Fishing is also a fantastic way of supplementing the diet along the trail.  Again, that is a food regulated and a license is required.  When allowed, hunting is always a good way to enjoy a super meal.  I went out the back door a few minutes ago and brought back a rabbit ready for tomorrow's stew, so foraging can make the home menu quite nice as well.  Bisquick and other modified mixes make good basics for carbohydrates as does powdered milk.  That mixed in an instant pudding mix just needs water.  Noodles always come backpack ready for any trip.  But then that type of food is not trail food, it is more in line with what one can do at home any day of the week for a nice meal.  Pancake mix comes with a just add water label and although not as good as the add egg and milk, it still works well.

 

The reason I promote backpack cooking methods only with my older boys is because many of the younger boys have enough trouble just getting a grilled cheese sandwich the right color of brown.  And when one is on a Philmont trek even the older boys don't like the instant oatmeal washed down with canteen water walking down the trail routine.  If all you want is the energy, that's just as good as anything out there, doesn't need fuel and there's no clean up.  Suck it up boys, you're on the trail.  LIke I said, it's survival food, not fine-dining.

[Hedgehog 334]

However, my idea of backpack cooking is more in line with survival cooking and cooking for calories for the trail.  It is not designed as a fine-dining outdoor experience.  There is nothing tasty about reconstituted freeze-dried anything.  

 

I guess we will have to disagee on that one.  If I can eat fine-dining style for the same weight as your survival food, I'll take fine dining.  

 

Most of the foods I listed (the exception being the freeze dried turkey) can be bought in the grocery store and dehydrated at home.  You can find polenta, mashed potatoes and couscous where you just add water and let it sit.  Tuna and chicken come in lightweight foil packs.  Gravy, pesto and other sauces come in small trail ready bags.  I won't mention the individually wrapped biscotti and honey buns I bring to eat with my coffee.

 

A lot of the freeze-dried stuff actually tastes pretty good.  The veggies like peas, corn and bean are indistinguishable from fresh (or maybe I was just really hungry).  The entrees that I've had are pretty good but I've head that the breakfasts are less than appetizing.  They even have desserts like cheesecake and creme brulee.

 

If I'm going to be doing 8 to 12 miles with 2,000+ feet of assents in a day (typical for backpacking in the Northeast on the AT and most other trails), I really want something good to look forward to for dinner - especially when you are burning around 4,000 calories.

[Stosh 3452]

After many days on the trail at Philmont eating survival food, they promised us DO stew and dessert.  I was so looking forward to it.  Yeah, Dinty Moore and dump cake cobbler.  I could have done that up in my mess kit and done a better job.  Needless to say, I reserved a spot on the dining car of the train on the way home and had a real meal just to make sure I hadn't lost my food appetite for good.    Yes, the tablecloth and napkins were both made of real cloth and the silverware had full handles on them.

[DuctTape 1230]

I disagree that backpacking cooking is crappy tasting survival food. For some perhaps it is, but it need not be. Like all cooking, it depends on the skill of the cook and the ingredients one brings.

[Hedgehog 334]

Yes, the tablecloth and napkins were both made of real cloth and the silverware had full handles on them.

 

Stosh -- If you are ever in Central NJ / Southeast PA, you have an open invitation for dinner from me -- be it on the trail, in base camp or at my house.  If it's at my house, I'll even supply the napkins and silverware.  But be warned -- I may hit you up for your DO cheesecake recepie.

[Stosh 3452]

Powerbars, oatmeal, canned meat, peanut butter and crackers?  Standard fare at Philmont where they are setting the stage for how backpacking is supposed to be done.  There is a serious difference between food and good food.  Pop Tarts and hot dogs are food, but so is roasted corn, garlic mashed potatoes and apple slaw thick cut pork chops.  

 

If it wasn't for the backpack experience, the food taken on that activity would NOT be acceptable fare for most troops on a weekend plop camporee.  The best I have heard anyone say over the past 45+ years of camping and backpack food was that some of it was "pretty good".  If I said that to my wife, I'd be eating at McDonalds a lot more often.