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RETREAT is a word that should NEVER be used in a flag ceremony.   The Colors nor the Guard ever retreat.

The whole point of this conversation is that others may do it differently and still be "right" as long as the ceremony is performed in a respectful manner.

 

I do agree with you regarding "Retreat" but that is coming from a veteran - I'm used to military flag ceremonies.  The flag code has no mention of it.

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The whole point of this conversation is that others may do it differently and still be "right" as long as the ceremony is performed in a respectful manner.

 

I do agree with you regarding "Retreat" but that is coming from a veteran - I'm used to military flag ceremonies.  The flag code has no mention of it.

 

The whole point is that the US Flag Code does not prescribe ANY format for flag ceremonies, so there is no wrong way to do them.  However as pointed out by your post, the word retreat bothers a lot of people and so it is a word that shouldn't be used.  

 

As I have stated in regards to the ceremonies it is "customary" (or traditional) the way some things are handled in regards to the flag.  BSA has it's suggestions and it is a civilian organization.  Then there's the way the military does it, but those customs are NOT civilian as with any other governmental organization like police or firefighters.  I am sure the janitor who raised and lowered the flag every morning or evening at the school I attended as a child didn't have much of a ceremony.... and technically he was a government employee.

 

When in doubt, refer back to the US Flag Code.  If it isn't stated there, then fall back on what is customary for one's group they are participating in.   Other than that, do what you think is respectful for the occasion.

 

I personally work hard at maintaining a high level of dignity for the ceremonies in that my boys are taught that the most important thing they will do all day is raise and lower the flag as needed.  Why?  Because of the sacrifice, dedication and determination of others to make sure that flag always flies free and we can take a few serious moments to remember that.  Maybe the word "retreat" bothers both you and I, so the comment  of not using it might be appropriate.  However, those who want to make the flag ceremony "fun" and "exciting" is something that rubs me the wrong way as well and I will not teach my boys to make it fun.  Dignified, yes, but fun and exciting is not how that flag gets to stay flying free, just as any veteran.

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RETREAT is a word that should NEVER be used in a flag ceremony.   The Colors nor the Guard ever retreat.

 

...except in 1974 in Saigon. ;)

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...except in 1974 in Saigon. ;)

that was not a retreat we declared a victory and whent home 

Edited by mattman578

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@@TAHAWK

 

Yes, the ceremony is called "Evening Retreat", but the flag is retired, retrieved, or lowered, never retreated.  :)

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"Where did ""TWO"" come from?"

 

Stosh answered his own question:   ""....and return to Attention (Order Arms)..."

 

It is short hand/abbreviation.  That is how it was explained to me , many moon ago by Ancient Wise CPO....

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@@TAHAWK

 

Yes, the ceremony is called "Evening Retreat", but the flag is retired, retrieved, or lowered, never retreated.   :)

Exactly.

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"Where did ""TWO"" come from?"

 

Stosh answered his own question:   ""....and return to Attention (Order Arms)..."

 

It is short hand/abbreviation.  That is how it was explained to me , many moon ago by Ancient Wise CPO....

I don't know if it was intuition or if I read that or was taught that someplace....

but that has always been my assumption....

that it's "to"

changed to "two" somewhere along the lines by some unknowing person.....

 

But again, I have no basis for that

other than it's the most plausible thing I've ever seen re. this....

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Personally,  I find endless repetition of the typical flag ceremony boring.

 

 

 

I have two that are excellent for dens and can be done well for a pack or troop, too.

 

 

1.  Have all Scouts,  and adults too if desired,  hold their den/patrol flag with their left hand.  They will naturally circle around the flag.

 

Do the Scout salute with the right hand and repeat the Pledge,  Scout Oath or Law.

 

 

 

2.  Unfurl an American flag.  Have each Scout (and adult if desired)  hold on to the edge of the flag.  Pretty much naturally the flag will be extended and held by everyone present.

 

Do the Pledge,  Scout Oath or Law as desired.

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Since Scouting isn't the US Army or Marines,  I'm not especially interested in what they do.

 

Especially when it comes to teaching the boys the respectful way of doing it using the appropriate standard.

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<<the respectful way of doing it using the appropriate standard.>>

 

 

 

That's your problem.  you apparently think there is only one respectful and appropriate way of doing a flag ceremony.

 

Read my post above.  It gives two respectful and appropriate ways to do flag ceremonies,  and I'm sure many others could be devised as well.

 

My priority is to avoid boring and repetitive flag ceremonies.

 

And I'm in a Scout program,  Cub Scouts in particular.  It's not the Marine Corps,  which has different values and standards. 

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<<the respectful way of doing it using the appropriate standard.>>

 

 

 

That's your problem.  you apparently think there is only one respectful and appropriate way of doing a flag ceremony.

 

Read my post above.  It gives two respectful and appropriate ways to do flag ceremonies,  and I'm sure many others could be devised as well.

 

My priority is to avoid boring and repetitive flag ceremonies.

 

And I'm in a Scout program,  Cub Scouts in particular.  It's not the Marine Corps,  which has different values and standards. 

 

No, that's not my problem, it is the problem defined by the U. S. Flag Code adopted by Congress.  And no they do not prescribe anything other that what's written in the Code.  For further reference, review the document, it's on-line.

 

There are other traditions beyond the US Flag Code that I teach, i.e. the Scout Handbook.  There they further indicate the BSA traditions which seem to follow some of the military protocols.  So, I therefore teach the boys to fold the flag in a triangle, for example, but if I was teaching a church youth group, I would accept any form of folding done respectfully.  

 

I will also speak up explicitly when I see people doing it in ways contrary to the US Flag Code and conclude that out of their ignorance of the Code they have not done enough due diligence to show proper respect for the Flag.

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