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CricketEagle

Path To Save Bsa?

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Trust is built by a pattern of actions over time.  The decision that had to be made is made and the impact will be what it will be.  If National is serious about restoring trust with the remaining members of the conservative wing of the organization it will be done over time, one decision at a time, one defense of this policy at a time, regardless of the internal or external pressure brought to bear by SfE or HRC or rogue councils inside the BSA.  Whether the rift becomes a full blown schism depends on whether National rigorously defends this policy, including aggressively defending the religious exemption, over the next many years.

I agree. National will have to do that. Hopefully the major nationwide CO's will stick around and LET the BSA do it.

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Qas AND Matt

Thanks for constructive replies.

 

 

I am there with you guys.

 

Doing my best to ignore national including thier definition of adventure micromanaged by risk avoidance legal advice. Just keep national and their silly policies out of the way of our youth and we can endure.

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I know y'all think that this permissive vs. restrictive sexual ethic thing is what's dooming the BSA, but that's not where the ship needs to be righted. In theory BSA could have gone more restrictive, and the membership drain would continue.

 

There's one thing that would restore value to the BSA that would undermine every micromanaging adult:

Move aggressively from a vision of "adventure boy"  and toward A Vision of Hiking and Camping Independently with Your Mates.

 

Think about it. If my Johnny or Jane is never going to Jambo, or an HA Base like all the glossy photos talk about all the time, but instead is finding a little nook just outside of town (or even in town) where he or she can grow and learn do some good in the world, I won't give a care about who some crack-pot troop on the other side of the nation is letting be their leader.

 

Back for the evening. I agree with qwazse.

On that note, if the unit had been on those streams with me, all this turmoil would have paled into background noise. Which is what I intend to let it do again tomorrow.

On a different note, I am saddened to report that one of our former scouts has just been charged with a local murder (a different one). When I joke about some our bullets landing not to far from some of the rest of you, I'm not really joking. Thanks qwazse, I'm outta here again. This forum is just too much.

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I know y'all think that this permissive vs. restrictive sexual ethic thing is what's dooming the BSA, but that's not where the ship needs to be righted. In theory BSA could have gone more restrictive, and the membership drain would continue.

 

There's one thing that would restore value to the BSA that would undermine every micromanaging adult:

Move aggressively from a vision of "adventure boy"  and toward A Vision of Hiking and Camping Independently with Your Mates.

 

Think about it. If my Johnny or Jane is never going to Jambo, or an HA Base like all the glossy photos talk about all the time, but instead is finding a little nook just outside of town (or even in town) where he or she can grow and learn do some good in the world, I won't give a care about who some crack-pot troop on the other side of the nation is letting be their leader.

I think you are right. Unfortunately, this is not just a BSA problem, but a society problem. Let your kids walk outside (let along camp overnight) without an adult? Get arrested (or at least get into a big mess with social services). That has to be fixed.

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It seems outside pressure groups and Mr. Gates in lock step with those groups have made the decision for the BSA.

Let the packs and troops fall where they may and congratulate National for a great job. I don't think this organization, lead by

Gates, and calls homosexual behavior....moral...has any character or integrity. He will get the organization that he wants by his

actions. Sad for scouts. Gates has fixed BSA.

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I agree. National will have to do that. Hopefully the major nationwide CO's will stick around and LET the BSA do it.

Cross-posting this story from the thread about the church in Louisville saying no to a gay scout leader, http://m.wlky.com/ne...p-role/34538506, just to say this.  This is the BSA's chance to start rebuilding trust with its conservative COs.  A statement from Dr. Gates, et. al. saying something like "The situation with Mr. Bourke in Louisville is exactly the type of situation we anticipated with this resolution and the decision of the Louisville Archdiocese fully in keeping with the letter and spirit of the resolution.  We are fully committed to allowing the Louisville Archdiocese, and all religious institutions, to operate their units according to their deeply held religious convictions.  Further, we stand ready to support and defend them in any way.  We sincerely hope Mr. Bourke finds another way to serve the BSA and will work with him accordingly."

 

My preference would be for National to do this before the story becomes a national headline.

Edited by walk in the woods

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“The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.â€

― Omar Khayyám

 

 This is the BSA's chance to start rebuilding trust with its conservative COs.  After one has killed the horse, it's gonna be a tough sell riding it back to town.

 

Welcome to the world of Pandora.

 

There might be a bit of doom-and-gloom out there from the conservatives, but there is a ton of pie-in-the-sky from the liberals.  With 70% of the CO's from religious organizations, things don't look at all rosy for BSA any time soon.  All of this to satisfy some politically correct cause that affects only 4% of the population, a noisy 4%, but still only 4%.

 

We are no longer a country directed by laws enacted by the majority of the populace, we are a country directed by the intolerant minority.  That's tyrany, always has been, always will be.

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“The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,

Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit

Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,

Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.â€

― Omar Khayyám

 

 This is the BSA's chance to start rebuilding trust with its conservative COs.  After one has killed the horse, it's gonna be a tough sell riding it back to town.

 

Welcome to the world of Pandora.

 

There might be a bit of doom-and-gloom out there from the conservatives, but there is a ton of pie-in-the-sky from the liberals.  With 70% of the CO's from religious organizations, things don't look at all rosy for BSA any time soon.  All of this to satisfy some politically correct cause that affects only 4% of the population, a noisy 4%, but still only 4%.

 

We are no longer a country directed by laws enacted by the majority of the populace, we are a country directed by the intolerant minority.  That's tyrany, always has been, always will be.

 

Stosh, well said.

 

There is certainly a "halo-effect" given to this topic by liberals.    Only goodness and light accompany their point of view.   Those who express any doubt, hesitation, or disagreement, even in a measured and courteous manner, are labeled as bigots, narrow-minded, and uneducated.    As you said, tyranny.  

 

This is what happens when a nation is ruled by sentiment rather than reason.

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Path to Save the BSA?

 

Backtrack to where we made a wrong turn.

 

Skeptic has mentioned this before - go back to those thrilling days of yesteryear.  There was no DRP or concerns/discussions about orientation, it was nobody's business.  IMO, the BSA should leave sex, religion, politics, family matters to others outside of scouting and concentrate on our business - scouts.

 

Want to be a Scout and will follow the Scout Oath and Law, welcome. A unit or CO turns you away, find another. A unit doesn't like you being at a scout activity, they get to stay away from the activity. 

 

KISS (Keep It Simple Scout)

 

My $0.02

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Just heard three units in council are disbanding. Their CO (church of Christ) has dropped them. Leaders have no time to find a new CO so they are sending those interested in continuing to other units. Their reported % going to the other units? 30%.

 

DEs running around trying to put their finger in the dyke.

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Want to be a Scout and will follow the Scout Oath and Law, welcome. A unit or CO turns you away, find another. A unit doesn't like you being at a scout activity, they get to stay away from the activity. 

 

Problem is, when political correctness reared its head during the Clinton years, that genie can't be put back in the bottle. If Hillary gets elected it will only get worse.

 

The people who follow that creed have no desire to live and let live. They want to jam their ideals down the throats of those that oppose them. That was my point elsewhere about their intolerance of others. They will never be satisfied.

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We are no longer a country directed by laws enacted by the majority of the populace, we are a country directed by the intolerant minority.  That's tyrany, always has been, always will be.

 

 

I could have sworn a majority voted in this change.

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I could have sworn a majority voted in this change.

Fuzzy numbers.

 

A majority in one year is a minority the next.

 

In this case, the representative majority voted on a policy, which the executive/judiciary could not countenance.

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I could have sworn a majority voted in this change.

 

When the poll was taken of selected members about allowing gay scouts the majority voted against it, yet a bear majority of the council members voted for it...against what the straw poll of membership voted.

 

Yes, a majority of the board voted for allowing gay leaders, but I think @@Stosh point is that the board's majority does not reflect how the BSA membership, nor how the 70% of the religious CO's feel.

Edited by Bad Wolf

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When the poll was taken of selected members about allowing gay scouts the majority voted against it, yet a bear majority of the council members voted for it...against what the straw poll of membership voted.

 

Yes, a majority of the board voted for allowing gay leaders, but I think @@Stosh point is that the board's majority does not reflect how the BSA membership, nor how the 70% of the religious CO's feel.

 

Not all religious COs are anti-gay. 

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