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robert12

Update On Adult Leadership Standards

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So you ARE saying only believers of the Abrahamic god are allowed as members.  Even though the BSA says differently.

Bad Wolf is just clowning around.

 

But I think it is an interesting discussion. He has a valid point except I think our scouting forefathers meant exclusively the Christian God.

 

Back then, the U.S. wasn't the multicultural paradise that it is now. Antisemitism was widely acceptable until WWII. Even today my Jewish friends are surprised that synagogues sponsor BSA troops; they always thought Boy Scouts was a Christian thing. As for Muslims, wouldn't the BSA have used the Allah if that's what they meant?

 

Language is very powerful. The BSA should consider that God be changed to "your god(s)", "divine spirit", or "the universe."

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I'm saying what I said. It was pretty clear. I will repeat.

 

If BSA did not mean the God of Jews, Christians and Muslims, then they should not have used the capitalized word God. If they meant just any old god or notion of a higher being not God, then they should use the lower case word god....or even gods.

Then why does BSA have religous emblems for non-aramaic religions.   http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Awards/ReligiousAwards.aspx 

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Bad Wolf is just clowning around.

 

But I think it is an interesting discussion. He has a valid point except I think our scouting forefathers meant exclusively the Christian God.

 

Back then, the U.S. wasn't the multicultural paradise that it is now. Antisemitism was widely acceptable until WWII. Even today my Jewish friends are surprised that synagogues sponsor BSA troops; they always thought Boy Scouts was a Christian thing. As for Muslims, wouldn't the BSA have used the Allah if that's what they meant?

 

Language is very powerful. The BSA should consider that God be changed to "your god(s)", "divine spirit", or "the universe."

All of you would be very surprised to learn that Mortimer Schiff, a Jewish banker from New York, was a founding vice president of the BSA.  He was 5th National President (died in office) while his son John was 7th National President.

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All of you would be very surprised to learn that Mortimer Schiff, a Jewish banker from New York, was a founding vice president of the BSA.  He was 5th National President (died in office) while his son John was 7th National President.

Good point.

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I'm still thinking that a strategic pause and long deep breath at certain points of the Scout Oath and Law will solve a lot of problems for those of us who adhere to a more "traditional" approach to BSA scouting.

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Even today my Jewish friends are surprised that synagogues sponsor BSA troops; they always thought Boy Scouts was a Christian thing.

Some of MY Jewish friends say the same thing, and even go further (beyond just synagogues as CO's) and express surprise that there are any Jewish people at all in the BSA. (Even though they know I am, and I am.) The Schiffs are good examples, but I stay closer to home and point out that my father was a Scout and then a Scouter from the age of 12 in the late 30's, to the day he died, 67 years later. His troop, as a youth, was chartered to a Jewish Community Center, and as of the time he became SM, was all Jewish. He once told me the story (this all happened before I was born, apparently) of the time that the troop "next door", consisting of everybody in the neighborhood who wasn't Jewish, folded, and he told the head of the CO that if he was not permitted to invite the displaced Polish, Italian, German, black, etc. etc. kids into the "all Jewish" troop, they would have to find a new Scoutmaster. So now it was a troop for everybody, in the early or mid 50's. I'm kind of proud of that.

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So now it was a troop for everybody, in the early or mid 50's. I'm kind of proud of that.

That's a great story. Scouting should be about not what divides, but what unites us. Because regardless of skin color, spiritual beliefs, and sexual orientation, we all love the outdoors, desire our children to grow into amazing adults and to instill common values.

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That's a great story. Scouting should be about not what divides, but what unites us. Because regardless of skin color, spiritual beliefs, and sexual orientation, we all love the outdoors, (but of course) desire our children to grow into amazing adults (as well as it should be) and to instill common values (and herein lies the problem.).

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So what happens to page 120? How long before the liberals find page 120 and force the change. You know the liberals will be some kind of upset that page 120 discusses "pregnancy" can't have that with gay scouts or leaders. Gonna have to remove it. Also you see the discussion of boys being attracted to girls who are becoming women. Nope, can't have that either.

 

Wait a minute. Whats up with page 120? I thought the BSA did not discuss sexual matters.

 

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Wow, what a horrible approach to sexual ethics - 100% utilitarian. How different from Lord Baden-Powell's approach (quoted from Aids to Scoutmastership):

 

Personally, apart from explaining as a preliminary how plants, and fishes, and animals reproduce their species, I have found it appeal to boys, as it did to me when I first heard it, to tell them how in every boy is growing the germ of another child to come from him. That that germ has been handed down to him from father to son from generations back. He has it in trust from God; it is his duty to keep it until he is married and passes it to his wife for reproduction. He cannot honorably forget his charge and throw it away in the meantime. Temptation will come to him in many forms to do so, but he has got to be strong and to guard it.

 

Every different boy at each age may need a different way of treatment in the matter. The main thing is for the Scoutmaster to have the lad's full confidence as a first step, and to be to him in the relation of an elder brother -- where both can speak quite openly.

 

At the same time it is necessary for me to add a word of warning to young and inexperienced Scouters. The fact that they are nearer the boy in age is not necessarily an advantage. Frequently it is a handicap and sometimes a real danger. From what I have written in the past on this subject, an impression has gone abroad that I consider it to be the duty of every Scoutmaster to enlighten each of his Scouts on this subject. That has never been my intention. It would upset the whole fabric of the family system to do so. What I do desire to do is to direct the attention of Scoutmasters to the question and to ask them to try and see that their Scouts receive enlightenment from the right person at the right time. More frequently than not the right person is the Parent, Pastor, Doctor or another -- NOT the Scoutmaster.

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Language is very powerful. The BSA should consider that God be changed to "your god(s)", "divine spirit", or "the universe."

 

We have winner!!

 

That's the point. If BSA means your god (assuming not God), my god, Rick's rock, NJScouter's tree and whatever else on Vishnu's Green Earth they want to recognize as a "higher power", then simply say so. I'm fine with that actually. 

 

But to say "Duty to God" and try to water it down to mean god, or something else is silly. Say god or higher power or [insert your religion here] if they want to truly be inclusive without (BSA) being obtuse. ;)

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Bad Wolf in my opinion the whole "Duty To God" is so watered down that it is meaningless. I really don't like the group hug moments when this comes up. I feel uncomfortable telling others about GOD because some folks are so easily offended when GOD is even referenced in the most watered down way. BSA doesn't want to really be serious about "Duty to GOD" in light of the most recent changes for the better of BSA. It seems that BSA is really saying to the membership do as I say and not as I do.

 

 

I am referring to the GOD of Abraham and Isaac. The Creator of the Universe.

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But is it their intent to be obtuse?

 

Intent and BSA are seldom found in the same sentence. ;)

 

Whether by happenstance or intent, BSA is obtuse.

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