Jump to content

Update On Adult Leadership Standards


Recommended Posts

Fred,and others, WE are not talking about laws here or separation of church and state, rather we are speaking of a select group of  individuals at National deciding that there should be two separate sets of rules deciding who you can or can not have as volunteers as a CO depending on whether you are a religious based CO or not. The two versions of these new rules lacks any real forethought or common sense and will probably result in even more scouts and leaders leaving the program. The CO and ONLY the CO should be the one deciding who are the appropriate candidates for their unit leaders. .National should stick solely to administering  scouting and developing  new programs, which is their job, instead of dictating and forcing new membership rules that goes against what that CO believes is right for their units. National needs to back off these new requirements and fast before they singlehandedly destroy what is left of the scouting program that they have been rapidly chipping away at since the 1970's.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 465
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

No, I'm upset because they're going to be having sex with the Scouts.

It happened, and we all knew it was coming. I have wanted local control ever since I learned how this all worked from the inside (i.e. once I went from a unit only volunteer to volunteering at higher

Long overdue. This is and has been the only route to resolution that made any sense, while maintaining the scouting ideal of respect for other faiths.

Posted Images

 

 

in no way did I imply that the people in the photos were Scouts, though I'm sure Scouts UK would have preferred that they were. 

 

 

I was going to take some time this morning to write a lengthy rebuff of your previous comments.

 

This latest disgraceful slur from you does the job for me though.

 

It is no longer possible to take you or your views seriously any more.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I was going to take some time this morning to write a lengthy rebuff of your previous comments.

 

This latest disgraceful slur from you does the job for me though.

 

It is no longer possible to take you or your views seriously any more.

You have to understand that Scouter99 has been writing stuff like this for years on this forum. You can see it in multiple threads. Because he can document (and yes he can) that in the first half of the 20th century, several groups of male homosexuals saw teenage boys as desirable (and acceptable) sexual targets (and basically bragged about it in writing), he believes that this shows that ALL homosexual males desire sex with teenage boys. In fact, he appears to believe that desiring sex with teenage boys is a fundamental element of male homosexual identity. Any male homosexual that claims to not want sex with young boys is either lying, or is denying their own identity.

 

The fact that in the same time period (and even today) you can document male heterosexuals that saw teenage girls as desirable and acceptable sexual targets (and also wrote about it) is irrelevant.

 

As for the photos, you can see the heterosexual equivalent by typing carnival into Google Images. And yes, you can find scouts attending Mardi Gras and Carnival parades in many countries (including this one). Not to mention the Shinto HÅnen Matsuri festival in Japan which is considered good (heterosexual) family fun.

 

The fact that it can be shown that there is nothing unique about the stuff that he is documenting gets ignored. I think it's because that challenges the idea that such things are somehow a unique evil of the “homosexual cultureâ€. I don’t believe anything we can write will change his opinion as it’s all about validating the idea that “homosexuality is evil and predatoryâ€.

Edited by packsaddle
Link to post
Share on other sites

If homosexual parade pictures are inappropriate for the forum, and the drunken debauchery of Mardi Gras and Carnival event pictures are inappropriate for the forum,  and heterosexual concerns about young teenage girls is inappropriate, why are we allowing the door to open to any of this types of behavior in scouting?  We need to be working to "moderate" more than just the forum.  I guess my only concern is the "in your face" attitude of such groups that tell me that such activity is somehow okay when in fact, it is not.  Flaunting one's homosexuality, or letting the boys know the "score" one has with the number of women and/or men in their lives, or the pedophilia's photo albums being shown at a Photography MB session or the alcoholic or drug user that comes in and does the drug and alcohol program for the boy so loaded or stoned he can't stand, but makes his point by being the "visual aid" for the program is anywhere near appropriate, then I have my concerns as well.

 

If I knew (and the boys knew) that one of my ASM's was a practicing homosexual, alcoholic, pedophile, philanderer, or some other form of activity that is considered inappropriate by my standards, (yes, my standards) then either that person or I will be leaving the program.  Any organization that allows such activity as being okay, does not have a place for me.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

If homosexual parade pictures are inappropriate for the forum, and the drunken debauchery of Mardi Gras and Carnival event pictures are inappropriate for the forum,  and heterosexual concerns about young teenage girls is inappropriate...

If by "inappropriate" you mean that they are removed from the forum, it's not correct to lump these things together. I look at these things on an item-by-item basis and I think the other moderators do as well. I removed one photo, I did not remove the other one. Past "parade" pictures have been left in the forum, although one or two may have been removed, I don't remember.

 

... why are we allowing the door to open to any of this types of behavior in scouting?

If by "we" you mean the BSA, it isn't "allowing the door to open to any of this type of behavior in scouting." The BSA has made clear that sexual activity and discussions of sexual activity are not permitted in Scouting.

Edited by NJCubScouter
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

If my memory serves me, I have only ever removed one photo. It was the same one that NJ removed within the last 24 hours... but was re-posted by the same forum member in a later response. READ my note.

Edited by packsaddle
Link to post
Share on other sites

If by "inappropriate" you mean that they are removed from the forum, it's not correct to lump these things together. I look at these things on an item-by-item basis and I think the other moderators do as well. I removed one photo, I did not remove the other one. Past "parade" pictures have been left in the forum, although one or two may have been removed, I don't remember.

 

 

If by "we" you mean the BSA, it isn't "allowing the door to open to any of this type of behavior in scouting." The BSA has made clear that sexual activity and discussions of sexual activity are not permitted in Scouting.

 

The point being that such activity must constantly be monitored.  Not many "family" or Scouting values need such moderation.

 

And as to your tag line?  It offers such little comfort because on this Scouting values oriented forum that's exactly what we're doing!

Link to post
Share on other sites
And as to your tag line?  It offers such little comfort because on this Scouting values oriented forum that's exactly what we're doing!

 

"We"? Only a very few of "us" seem to be completely consumed and obsessed with things sexual in these forums.

I will be very happy to delete any and all such discussion in the future. Is that what you advocate?

Edited by packsaddle
Link to post
Share on other sites

The point being that such activity must constantly be monitored.  Not many "family" or Scouting values need such moderation.

I am not even sure what "activity" you are talking about at this point. The "activity" that was addressed by moderators in this case was placing a photo in the forum that did not belong here.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The two versions of these new rules lacks any real forethought or common sense and will probably result in even more scouts and leaders leaving the program. The CO and ONLY the CO should be the one deciding who are the appropriate candidates for their unit leaders. .National should stick solely to administering  scouting and developing  new programs, which is their job, instead of dictating and forcing new membership rules that goes against what that CO believes is right for their units. National needs to back off these new requirements and fast before they single handedly destroy what is left of the scouting program that they have been rapidly chipping away at since the 1970's.

 

My apologies.  What two versions of these new rules?  I'm confused as what BSA is proposing does what you indicate later in your post.  BSA is letting the CO and essentially only the CO choose.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

"We"? Only a very few of "us" seem to be completely consumed and obsessed with things sexual in these forums.

I will be very happy to delete any and all such discussion in the future. Is that what you advocate?

 

Making a comment on an observation can not always assumed to be advocating anything.

 

Me thinks the Lady doth.....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone once said, "If by "we" you mean the BSA, it isn't "allowing the door to open to any of this type of behavior in scouting." The BSA has made clear that sexual activity and discussions of sexual activity are not permitted in Scouting."   And, as nothing more than a general observation, the discussion goes on totally oblivious to that indicating that no one has even noticed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

And as to your tag line?  It offers such little comfort because on this Scouting values oriented forum that's exactly what we're doing!

Ok, I just realized what that meant. This forum is not "Scouting." It is ABOUT Scouting, mostly. Scouting has its rules, this forum has its own rules (which are few in number) and general practices. We do discuss things here that would not be appropriate to discuss at a troop meeting. But Packsaddle asks a good question: Do you want to change that?

Edited by NJCubScouter
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...