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nitroboy

Gay Scouts & B.s.a.

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Conduct is a result of one's orientation.

I don't even know what that means. The BSA leadership draws a clear distinction between orientation and conduct. If you disagree with them on that, well, welcome to the club. I disagree with them about other things.

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Nitroboy asked for confirmation that the events he reported should be handled as a Youth Protection issue, which is how it should be handled and, evidently, how it was handled. How the incident was to be handled has nothing to do with the sexual orientation of those involved.

Except that it does when you open scouts up like has been done. and this will continue to happen.

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Homosexual, heterosexual, metasexual,  it matters not.  Any sexual contact is inappropriate in Scouting. The YP guidelines can and should be applied in any case of such behavior.

 

"There is no Sexuality merit badge."

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Several people have posted that this is purely a Youth Safety Issue. There's nothing to see here, folks, move along smartly.

 

It seems to be be a policy issue as well. If I'm not mistaken, were we not told that a) this sort of thing would not happen, as gay kids would have the sense and maturity to keep their hands to themselves, and b) COs could bounce a kid who is gay if he overtly acts on his sexual interests - i.e., one could self-identify as gay, but to act on those impulses should result in termination from the BSA.

 

That seems to be the issue here: Can and should the gay scout be dropped from Scouting? He violated the rules, and in a way that will have a negative effect on the victim. For the victim in this case of unwanted sexual harassment, he will likely always associate this unpleasant experience with a) going to summer camp and b) perhaps, Scouting in general. He may brush it off, but it is just as likely that he will not want to participate in Scouting anymore, where that kind of thing happened to him.

 

Politically, is the BSA still in a position where it would be able to remove a gay scout for acting out on his desires with other boys, or has that time passed?

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BSA can do what it wants, if I have one boy bullying or sexually harassing another boy, he's out of the troop.  That's been my policy long before the homosexual issue was politically correct.  I was a CA for 15 years and I didn't tolerate any bullying or sexual harassment from anyone whether they were homosexual or heterosexual.  

 

BSA has it's policies, I have mine.  If anyone in my units does not feel safe and comfortable, the reason for that discomfort or danger is removed, no second chances.  As long as the youth know that up front, there shouldn't be a problem.  I have held that standard for the past 45 years working with youth and never had the experience of removing a participant from any of the programs I have worked with.

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AZMike, so far we know very little about what happened here, and we know nothing about the outcome, because Nitroboy decided not to tell us "at this time." We don't even know whether the alleged wrongdoer was a Scouter or a Scout, because he is identified as both in the original post. What little we do "know" we have been told by someone who knows the facts third-hand, at best. If you choose to draw conclusions from that, it's your choice.

 

As for the YP policy, there were YP violations before there was any change in the sexual orientation policy, and there will be YP violations after. I don't think anyone ever said there wouldn't be. There is no reason to believe that the enforcement of the YP policies has changed or will change.

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AZMike - as others have said, we don't know enough of the situation to really say.. Like if the homosexual looked at the other kid and knowing the orientation of the fellow the accuser simply took it as his coming on to him .. Then it would end up being the homosexual really did nothing wrong.. But, for the sake of argument, lets say the homosexual did cross the line. Then the answer is yes, the youth should be removed if BSA is following youth protection policy..  It is as simple as that.. If they did not remove him, they did not follow policy.

 

But as others have said, this would be the same policy if in ventures a youth male crossed the line with a youth female.. Or an Adult male came on to either a youth male or Female. Or a Female Adult came on to either a youth male of female.. 

 

Not youth protection, but still should be dealt with as sexual harassment would be a Female Adult propositioned a Male or Female Adult.. Or a Male Adult hit on a Female or Male Adult..

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I know of two boy scout babies (teens now) as a result of Venture Crew tent mates.

 

Barry

Sounds like violations of Youth Protection policies to me. Were there any consequences? (Other than the babies, I mean.)

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Thank you all for your responses ! It was a scout not scouter that made the advances ! My Bad for not correcting it !

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Any breech in the safety and welfare of anyone in my charge is met with immediate, no discussion, expulsion from the troop.  Knowing this upfront means no surprises down the road.  It may also be the reason I have never had to deal with any issues like this in my troops.

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Thank you all for your responses ! It was a scout not scouter that made the advances ! My Bad for not correcting it !

No worries.

Still falls under youth protection.

It was right to notify the camp director.

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"There is no Sexuality merit badge."

 

Somehow I suspect there will be by the time the self-proclaimed "enlightened" ones are done changing the program.

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<<

 

 

Any breech in the safety and welfare of anyone in my charge is met with immediate, no discussion, expulsion from the troop.  Knowing this upfront means no surprises down the road.  It may also be the reason I have never had to deal with any issues like this in my troops.>>

 

 

 

WAY too broad and vague to be of any use in evaluating a situation,  in my opinion.

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