Food For Thought...

[JoeBob 606]

Irving's KP procedure for cooking a HotDawg on a stick:

 

Meat:

1- Turkey franks are encouraged.  Low fat hot dogs are allowed.  All beef, extra plump, and ballpark franks are discouraged.  Bun-sized wieners are NOT allowed as their name violates YPT guidelines.

 

Heat:

2- Propane gas stoves are recommended for their low environmental impact.  (No white gas.  Danger!!!) Charcoal fires are allowed.  Wood fires are frowned upon for LNT points.

 

Utensils:

3- Shish kabob skewers with wooden handles to protect your hand from heat are best.  Metal coat hangers may be used provided that all the paint has been stripped and cleaned.  Sticks are a last resort if you use only dead wood and dip the ends into boiling water first for sanitation.  Under NO circumstances will you cut a green limb to get a stick to cook your dinner!  Eat dirt first!  All the other tree limbs would miss their buddy...

 

Procedure:

4- One adult safety marshal shall hover behind each scout cooking a wiener.  Adults should keep an eye on the scouts to either side of their cooker as well, in case they are needed to help snatch a boy from the fire who has dived in to retrieve a burning tube-steak.

 

Training:

COFFIN training (Cooking Over Fires For Irving Nitwits)  is required for every adult safety marshal.  COFFIN certification must be renewed every 2 years, or immediately if someone eats a bit of char.

[eagle77 60]

  You know I've been reading this subject and  all the different reasons that some of us have given for the decline in numbers and what scouting needs to do for the future the one that I was thinking of is not mentioned once and I really find it hard to believe. Doesn't anybody out there think that scouting is more expensive then many of the other activities that compete with us? I had an entire Webelos den come to one of the troop meetings and all 8 of them were there only for AOL requirement, not one single one was moving on to Boy Scouts. This really surprised me and while the boys were interacting I talked with the parents. Two of the parents just didn't want them to move on any further, the remaining six simply said Boy Scouting was too expensive for their budgets. There was nothing I could say that would change their minds on this. They were tired of fund raisers, they wouldn't take handouts of any sort, and said they just couldn't afford all the added costs associated with moving into Boy Scouts.With unemployment the way it is and lower paying jobs that are replacing the old time production type jobs that existed at one time. Now I know this can vary greatly according to what part of the country you live in, but I sure as hell think it is a major reason for our declining numbers.

[qwazse 4342]

Yes the economy is a factor but ...

If the vision of scouting excludes the big ticket items, it's not so expensive .... Definitely less expensive than soccer. And more utilitarian ... my boys and girl use their hiking boots more than their cleats.

 

So, when you presented your program, did you mention high adventure and jamboree and your council summer camp? Or ...

- did you emphasize that those things were not central to your program?

- did you point out that your older boys hand down uniforms and gear?

- did you say the boys could build their own program including their own summer camp?

- that in a couple of years, you envision these boys walking around their community on their own, lending a hand wherever they see it, making tough times bearable?

 

Are you willing to scale your program down to, say, $350/year and call back those parents with a program they might be able to afford?

[Gone 435]

You know I've been reading this subject and  all the different reasons that some of us have given for the decline in numbers and what scouting needs to do for the future the one that I was thinking of is not mentioned once and I really find it hard to believe. Doesn't anybody out there think that scouting is more expensive then many of the other activities that compete with us? I had an entire Webelos den come to one of the troop meetings and all 8 of them were there only for AOL requirement, not one single one was moving on to Boy Scouts. This really surprised me and while the boys were interacting I talked with the parents. Two of the parents just didn't want them to move on any further, the remaining six simply said Boy Scouting was too expensive for their budgets. There was nothing I could say that would change their minds on this. They were tired of fund raisers, they wouldn't take handouts of any sort, and said they just couldn't afford all the added costs associated with moving into Boy Scouts.With unemployment the way it is and lower paying jobs that are replacing the old time production type jobs that existed at one time. Now I know this can vary greatly according to what part of the country you live in, but I sure as hell think it is a major reason for our declining numbers.

Select sport will run you $3000+. My niece is in dance which runs three times that.

 

Units can make an effort to keep costs down. National could do its part by not making the uniform so expensive.

[Stosh 3452]

I've never been able to afford Scouting.  It's kinda like an addiction that sucks my pocketbook dry every month.  I had to give up smoking ($7.50 pack a day habit, $2737.50/year) and drinking say maybe another $2737.50 for booze (I don't drink anymore so I have no idea what the price of a beer is.. ).

 

I've had to buy scout uniforms off of Ebay because I couldn't afford Scout Shop prices.  Regular cloths?  If Walmart doesn't carry it, I don't wear it.

 

That's just in money.  I could go on and on about how much Scouting cost me in time and energy.....

 

How many Date Nights with the Mrs. ended up frozen pizza and a Netflix movie?

 

What's an X-Box, Play Station or WII going for now-a-days, I do know the games are running about $50/each

 

Not one more Saturday morning is going to be invested in sitting out in front of the Walmart with the baked goods, or going door to do selling popcorn just so their kids can have some outdoor program that they don't want to leave the couch to do.

 

These parents are correct.  With the narcissistic priority system they have set for themselves, they can't afford Scouting. 

 

Don't be upset when these parents say Scouting costs too much, you really don't want them in your troop anyway.  (The parents that is, the boys will do fine and are always welcome)  

[Gone 435]

 

These parents are correct.  With the narcissistic priority system they have set for themselves, they can't afford Scouting. 

 

Don't be upset when these parents say Scouting costs too much, you really don't want them in your troop anyway.  (The parents that is, the boys will do fine and are always welcome)  

Yup...the first parents to complain about costs are the one who's kids did not sell jack during the three fund raisers. Ironically, one of those parents skulked back home (which is across the street) in her Mercedes SL. Go figure.

[Eagledad 2777]

  You know I've been reading this subject and  all the different reasons that some of us have given for the decline in numbers and what scouting needs to do for the future the one that I was thinking of is not mentioned once and I really find it hard to believe. Doesn't anybody out there think that scouting is more expensive then many of the other activities that compete with us? I had an entire Webelos den come to one of the troop meetings and all 8 of them were there only for AOL requirement, not one single one was moving on to Boy Scouts. This really surprised me and while the boys were interacting I talked with the parents. Two of the parents just didn't want them to move on any further, the remaining six simply said Boy Scouting was too expensive for their budgets. There was nothing I could say that would change their minds on this. They were tired of fund raisers, they wouldn't take handouts of any sort, and said they just couldn't afford all the added costs associated with moving into Boy Scouts.With unemployment the way it is and lower paying jobs that are replacing the old time production type jobs that existed at one time. Now I know this can vary greatly according to what part of the country you live in, but I sure as hell think it is a major reason for our declining numbers.

Well I know it seems compelling, but I don't think the economy has much play in the decline. I used to interview Webelos scouts and parents to learn why the families did or didn't crossover. I found the first response of families quitting weren't usually truthful because the reason was more complicated than a quick answer. Sports is typically the number one first reactionary or fake reason, but as I let them talk and  open up about their Cub Scouting experience, the boys didn't enjoy the Cubs and just didn't see any fun in the future of scouting. The parents didn't want to hassle with it anymore. I have often said that Cubs is too long and burns out the adults resulting in a decline at all ages including Venturing. I could be wrong, but cost isn't that much different compared to other youth activities, so I have to believe these families are quitting for other reasons. 

 

As to what can be done to change scouting, I think there are some pretty good responses to changing scouting's image. Just how much marketing do we see on media for scouting anymore. How much recruiting is word of mouth?

 

Barry

Edited June 9, 2015 by Eagledad

[Stosh 3452]

Today's "journalism" tend to be a bit slanted towards anti-scouting, but how much of that is countered directly on the same medium?  We complain in our own little groups about how scouting gets a bad rap in the press and while we spend big bucks on scout trailers, we spend nothing on program advertising.  Our local council will promote the fundraiser activities on local TV and radio, but nothing on the program of scouting.  Maybe local units need to consider this.

[TAHAWK 1420]

Once you decide you don't want to spend the time, it's easy to rationalize.  

[qwazse 4342]

Today's "journalism" tend to be a bit slanted towards anti-scouting, but how much of that is countered directly on the same medium?  We complain in our own little groups about how scouting gets a bad rap in the press and while we spend big bucks on scout trailers, we spend nothing on program advertising.  Our local council will promote the fundraiser activities on local TV and radio, but nothing on the program of scouting.  Maybe local units need to consider this.

Same station, same news hour, sometimes even the same day you'll hear a story on the shennanigans at national, then a special interest story on some massive Eagle project or some scout in a minority neighborhood making Eagle 'round here.

 

Then there's the best medium, talking to strangers. Last month on the bus home, as we passed the cemetary, I pointed out to some kids and their mom, "My scouts put up all those flags. They got scouts from all over the neighborhood to help them. Maybe when you're older you can help too."

Edited June 9, 2015 by qwazse

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Eagle77, I suspect the "money" issue is just an excuse for many of the parents. As we have discussed in a number of threads in this forum, it is a matter of the parents' priorities. Scouting can be done as inexpensively, or less expensively, than many other activities. In fact, Scouting is one of the few activities where the participants (both youth members and parents, in the role of leaders) have a say in what the activities are going to be, and therefore what they are going to cost. And how to raise the funds to pay for them. (And if these parents are "tired of fundraising" when their sons are in the fifth grade, they are going to have a rude awakening as their sons get older. In high school, and even at the lower grades, it seems like every activity comes with an expectation that the participants and their parents will do fund-raising.)

 

I also find it interesting that there does not seem to be much consideration by the parents of what their sons want to do, or not do. At least it is not mentioned in your post. It seems to be all about the parents.

[Stosh 3452]

I know of a few kids who attend worship without the active support of their parents.  By law kids have to be in school regardless of the support of the parents, but other activities need parents to give them at least a ride to and from the activity.  Without parents back up and supporting their sons's interests, those interests will go unmet.

 

My step son was angry at his mom for not forcing him to stay in scouts.  Her Ex thought it was a waste of time and money.  She did what she could while he was in Cub Scouts, but it eventually became a lost cause and the boy dropped.  When his mom married me and he saw what fun it really could be, he now regrets not having mom push harder for him to stay in the program.

 

Sports booster clubs,  Church ministries, YMCA/Boys and Girls Clubs are all supported by the parents or the kids don't go.  Growing up, I didn't get much support from my parents.  If I wanted to be in Scouts, I had to pay for it with money I raised shoveling walks, mowing lawns and turning over gardens.  Since I was 10 years old, I've held at least a part-time job my entire life except for the first semester of college and the last semester of seminary...and of course these past few weeks since I've retired.  Needless to say if I wanted it, I paid for it myself.  That included the 10 years of post-high school education.  It's possible, but in this day and age, it's pretty much unheard of.  

[eagle77 60]

   In my years as a scout leader this was the only time parents had ever told me their sons were not joining because of money issues. As many of you have suggested there was some other reason for their refusal to join Boy Scouts. I scaled the program costs so far back that one of the dads told me out of frustration "stop trying to sell us on joining, its not happening". Even parents that I thought may have a legit money problem would never come out and say that was the reason. At the end of the meeting the CC told me that she felt I had scaled it back too far, I told her that I could have went even further and they would not change their mind. They just did not expect me to be prepared for the "we can't afford this" line. Had more respect for the other 2 parents who admitted up front that their sons were not joining. Our SPL and PLC put on a great "join our troop" type meeting. All the cubs enjoy and are involved in the process. Selling the kids is the easy job, selling parents, especially those who have already made their decision is the tough part.

 

   I guess the reason I brought this up was because as a Boy Scout our troop grew more from walk in scouts rather then cub scouts moving up. In my 11 years as SM we only had 3 walk ins 2 friends and 1 cousin of scouts in the troop. Now to answer it further we get plenty of community exposure, our troop runs the canoe races at the 4th of July community picnic (most popular event) we have a large banner with our name and where we meet plus handouts, local paper always has differnent projects or services that the boys have done, prepare and deliver holiday meals for the less fortunate, etc.

 

    Nobody feels that the economy has any major effect on BSA declining numbers?

[Eagledad 2777]

While I agree that marketing the BSA at the unit level is terrible, I would never put any of the blame of declining numbers on them. First of all, program marketing at the unit level today hasn't change much from the days when numbers were increasing. Second, units only provide the program that is given to them by National. They can't be blamed, negatively or positively, for changes that effect the program performance and public image.

 

If the BSA desires to change its image, it will have to come from the top.

 

Barry

[Gone 435]

@@eagle77 our unit sounds similar to yours. We've prospered and grown over the last 12 years. We've seen other units fold and blow away while our recruiting continued strong. We've had no help from district or council, though somehow they take credit for our success.

 

While we have not seen the effect of these national declines, many other units have been impacted.

 

Recently, even we have seen a decline in the Webelos coming over. Since 2013 those numbers have dropped considerably. Looking forward the rising crop of Webelos are fewer and fewer. Packs are closing and in severe decline. In our area the pool of Webelos is shrinking so much we will need to find other sources for recruitment. Packs are simply declining too fast to feed the current number of troops.