Gone 435 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 @@Stosh, I'm going with the common Venisonus Deerlicius or wild deer. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) Well, I don't have any moose running through my backyard, so I'm going to have to just settle for Bambi. Although Thumper is a pretty good meal in and of itself too. I may not know their Latin names, but I do know their real names. Edited May 22, 2015 by Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Well, you made me learn something. I thought that Blacktail deer were a sub of Whitetail. Nope. They're more related to mule deer. Based on appearance and geography, a scout might be expected to identify: Odocoileus virginianus - Whitetail Odocoileus hemionus - Mule deer Odocoileus hemionus columbianus - Blacktail deer Odocoileus virginianus clavium - Key Deer But are you really going to expect differentiation to this level: North America[edit] O. v. acapulcensis – Acapulco white-tailed deer (southern Mexico) O. v. borealis – northern (woodland) white-tailed deer (the largest and darkest white-tailed deer) O. v. carminis – Carmen Mountains Jorge deer (Texas-Mexico border) O. v. clavium – Key deer or Florida Keys white-tailed deer (found in the Florida Keys an example of insular dwarfism) O. v. couesi – Coues white-tailed deer, Arizona white-tailed deer, or fantail deer O. v. dakotensis – Dakota white-tailed deer or Northern Plains white-tailed deer (most northerly distribution, rivals the northern white-tailed deer in size) O. v. hiltonensis – Hilton Head Island white-tailed deer O. v. idahoensis – white-tailed deer (western Canada, Idaho, eastern Washington)[8] O. v. leucurus – Columbian white-tailed deer (Oregon and western coastal area) O. v. macrourus – Kansas white-tailed deer O. v. mcilhennyi – Avery Island white-tailed deer O. v. mexicanus – Mexican white-tailed deer (central Mexico) O. v. miquihuanensis – Miquihuan white-tailed deer (central Mexico) O. v. nelsoni – Chiapas white-tailed deer (southern Mexico and Guatemala) O. v. nemoralis – (Central America, round the Gulf of Mexico to Surinam further restricted to from Honduras to Panama) O. v. nigribarbis – Blackbeard Island white-tailed deer O. v. oaxacensis – Oaxaca white-tailed deer (southern Mexico) O. v. ochrourus – (tawny) northwest white-tailed deer or northern Rocky Mountains white-tailed deer O. v. osceola – Florida coastal white-tailed deer O. v. seminolus – Florida white-tailed deer O. v. sinaloae – Sinaloa white-tailed deer (mid-western Mexico) O. v. taurinsulae – Bulls Island white-tailed deer (Bulls Island, South Carolina) O. v. texanus – Texas white-tailed deer O. v. thomasi – Mexican lowland white-tailed deer O. v. toltecus – Rain Forest white-tailed deer (southern Mexico) O. v. venatorius – Hunting Island white-tailed deer (Hunting Island, South Carolina) O. v. veraecrucis – northern Vera Cruz white-tailed deer O. v. virginianus – Virginia white-tailed deer or southern white-tailed deer O. v. yucatanensis – Yucatán white-tailed deer So just going with White-tailed Deer isn't good enough? And by the way, why do you Texans get your own White-tailed deer and we in Wisconsin don't? Sounds a little snooty if you ask me. Or is it the Texan White-tailed deer actually shoot back? Link to post Share on other sites
JoeBob 606 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 O. v. borealis – northern (woodland) white-tailed deer (the largest and darkest white-tailed deer) I can vouch for Wisconsin deer being bigger than what I usually collect in Georgia. And it's hard to shoot an arrow straight with a tab and your fingers when it's been 20 degrees all morning! ScoutSon (12) collected his first this year. And ScoutWannaBeDaughter (14) collected her first 2 on the same day. Whereas I got skunked for the first time in 35 years. Thank goodness the kids are bringing home the meat! Link to post Share on other sites
desertrat77 1144 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Was a scout for 4 years in Alaska...moose steaks are superb. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 O. v. borealis – northern (woodland) white-tailed deer (the largest and darkest white-tailed deer) I can vouch for Wisconsin deer being bigger than what I usually collect in Georgia. And it's hard to shoot an arrow straight with a tab and your fingers when it's been 20 degrees all morning! ScoutSon (12) collected his first this year. And ScoutWannaBeDaughter (14) collected her first 2 on the same day. Whereas I got skunked for the first time in 35 years. Thank goodness the kids are bringing home the meat! Sorry, JoeBob, for some reason I thought you were a Texan. Once us Yankees hit the Mason Dixon, it's like everything is Down South... It was kinda like living in S. California for a year and everyone talked about New Mexico and Utah as back East. Say what? In California there is no West. Last year my brother (big time hunter) and his wife (Turned down their first date because it was deer week) got skunked. Their 14 year old daughter filled all 7 tags. Was a scout for 4 years in Alaska...moose steaks are superb. The Mrs. spent 25 years in Alaska, ate plenty of moose. She says it's the best venison and prefers it over beef or pork. Link to post Share on other sites
Twocubdad 665 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 zzzzzzzzzz SNORK! Sorry, I may have dozed off on the deer discussion. You guys are looking for an regulatory solution to an operational problem. Clearly, the SM is responsible for approving the completion of the requirements. You need a SM with half a brain and a pair of stones. "Mr. TwoCub, can I count the crawdad I found in the creek?" "Are you going to cook it?" "Already did." "It counts." "Mr. TwoCub, I got my 10 animals, 6 crows and 4 squirrels." "Nope, that's only 2 animals." "But my PL already signed my handbook. Mommy printed a page out of the Guide to Advancement that says..." "No, doesn't count. I hear the G2A makes great tender. And ask your PL to swing by here when he gets a chance." "Mr. TwoCub, can I count the kid with the purple Mohawk and nose ring." "Sorry, credit for trying, but no ceeegar." Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Then there's the SM and PL's that don't know what these animals are that the boys are finding and that causes a real problem. For advancement, identifying plants and animals has it's reasons. First to introduce the boys to being observant and secondly to insure safety in the woods. Are the plants edible? Are they poisonous? What about this animal will it hurt me? Will it bite? etc. Be aware, observant and safe. Beyond that, I don't care if they don't know the difference between a crow and a raven. Most people can't tell anyway. One could assume the 11 year old will refer to all of them as crows. But there comes a time, well beyond the T-FC years that knowledge about these animals needs to go beyond basic identification. Out at Philmont the SM of the troop I was with old all of us adults that whenever we see a bear it's to be identified as a black bear, not a grizzly so as to not scare the boys. Yep, that's a good solution to the problem. A grizzly comes through our camp and the SM tells all the boys not to worry it's just a black bear. That year they were having big time problems with the bears. The first night were were there in base camp a string of lights were coming down off the Tooth of Time in the middle of the night. At breakfast I made the comment they must have had bear trouble up at the Tooth of Time camp. SM tied into me and all but threatened to leave me behind. About 20 minutes later the staff announced the fact that a contingent had been forced off the Tooth of Time when they couldn't run off the bear. How are these boys going to be ready to face danger when adults lie to them? As they get older they need to learn about their habits, their intelligence, and their attitudes towards humans, not just identify them. On that same Philmont trek, we came across a patch of wild raspberries. The boys began pulling them off the bushes as fast as they could. I just asked if anyone was watching for the bears? SM had a fit again. I said, this is prime food for the bears and we're in their kitchen and they are well aware of these berries. Pick a few, and eat them here. If you eat too many or get the juice on their hands, the smell will follow us down the trail and so will the bears. I didn't have to remind any of them the importance of moving out of the bear feeding area. Most of our boys can identify a small poison ivy plant along the trail, but when I showed them a 30' vine going up a tree they wouldn't believe me until my wife came over and told the boys to stay away from that vine because it's poison ivy. SWMBO has spoken... We were clearing brush out of an abandoned park and cutting that vine would have been a real problem for everyone. Like I said, identifying 10 plants and 10 animals for rank advancement is pretty much a non-issue when it comes to how precise the identification needs to be. It's only the first step in a long line of lessons the boys will need to get under their belts. Link to post Share on other sites
pargolf44067 57 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 But there comes a time, well beyond the T-FC years that knowledge about these animals needs to go beyond basic identification. Out at Philmont the SM of the troop I was with old all of us adults that whenever we see a bear it's to be identified as a black bear, not a grizzly so as to not scare the boys. Yep, that's a good solution to the problem. A grizzly comes through our camp and the SM tells all the boys not to worry it's just a black bear. That year they were having big time problems with the bears. The first night were were there in base camp a string of lights were coming down off the Tooth of Time in the middle of the night. At breakfast I made the comment they must have had bear trouble up at the Tooth of Time camp. SM tied into me and all but threatened to leave me behind. About 20 minutes later the staff announced the fact that a contingent had been forced off the Tooth of Time when they couldn't run off the bear. How are these boys going to be ready to face danger when adults lie to them? As they get older they need to learn about their habits, their intelligence, and their attitudes towards humans, not just identify them. On that same Philmont trek, we came across a patch of wild raspberries. The boys began pulling them off the bushes as fast as they could. I just asked if anyone was watching for the bears? SM had a fit again. I said, this is prime food for the bears and we're in their kitchen and they are well aware of these berries. Pick a few, and eat them here. If you eat too many or get the juice on their hands, the smell will follow us down the trail and so will the bears. I didn't have to remind any of them the importance of moving out of the bear feeding area. Glad I wasn't at Philmont with that guy. I might have left HIM behind at base camp. That is just not considering the safety of the scouts! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Gone 435 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) Be the smart a** I am I likely would have said, "did you see those black bears coming down off the 'Tooth' last night? Ate everything the campers had including their headlamps. You could see the head lamps in their teeth as the came back down the mountain." Black bears in some parts can be more aggressive than browns. Edited May 22, 2015 by Bad Wolf Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 @ When we did the Camp Buffalo Bill summer camp, a ranger from Yellowstone came over and did Sunday night bear orientation. Excellent training. He said the blacks tend to be territorial and protective and can be very aggressive in their area. Grizzlies are just plain mean and will challenge (if necessary) anything at any time in any place. I had it explained to me that in bear country one is to wear small bells on the shoe laces of the boots and carry pepper spray. That way when you find bear scat, the scat that has bells in it and smells like pepper is grizzly scat. Link to post Share on other sites
Gone 435 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 @ When we did the Camp Buffalo Bill summer camp, a ranger from Yellowstone came over and did Sunday night bear orientation. Excellent training. He said the blacks tend to be territorial and protective and can be very aggressive in their area. Grizzlies are just plain mean and will challenge (if necessary) anything at any time in any place. I had it explained to me that in bear country one is to wear small bells on the shoe laces of the boots and carry pepper spray. That way when you find bear scat, the scat that has bells in it and smells like pepper is grizzly scat. Very true. Though I will say bells and spray work...as does a good 12 gauge. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 @ I don't do the bells thingy, but I do carry a 9 mm and second clip (Iillegal, but I'll be alive to tell it in court), pepper spray and sing. As I mentioned in an earlier post, most people we meet along the trails look at me rather strangely because I'm singing, but when I tell them I sing to warn the bears I'm coming, they tend to sing too. Link to post Share on other sites
Gone 435 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 @ I don't do the bells thingy, but I do carry a 9 mm and second clip (Iillegal, but I'll be alive to tell it in court), pepper spray and sing. As I mentioned in an earlier post, most people we meet along the trails look at me rather strangely because I'm singing, but when I tell them I sing to warn the bears I'm coming, they tend to sing too. Yup singing, loud talking and my favorite "Hey Bear!" are all good. A 9mm is good. Second clip is legal in my neck of the woods. Come to MT...open carry, no magazine restriction, etc. Super Soakers allowed too but require a seven day waiting period. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4344 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Then there's the SM and PL's that don't know what these animals are that the boys are finding and that causes a real problem. ... I don't find this a problem, unless the unit is EDGE-dependent. The boys will learn by the SM's and PL's example that the ideal way of mastering a scout skill includes looking up a reference. "I don't know, let's see if we can find it in this field guide." ... Perhaps the best phrase a boy could ever hear. When my crew was hiking around Lake Arthur, we came upon a tall tree that had dropped some odd nuts, and the MC and I stopped and spent a good while talking over what it could be. It thoroughly perplexed my daughter and her friend (the MC's daughter) to see us haggling over this identification. That evening I looked up a guide, then e-mailed everyone to let them know, that I narrowed it to English hornbeam. If the kids see us on our little voyages of discovery, they won't be embarrassed to make their own journeys. Link to post Share on other sites
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