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Where Do Knots Come From, Daddy?


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not your average birds and the bees talk.  Just wondering: who generally fills out the paperwork for Knots/adult awards?  My logical guess would be the committee chair, but are committee chairs supposed to keep track of how many roundtables you attended so you can get your Knot?  Is it wrong or bad form to submit the paperwork to the CC yourself? 

 

My humble self says yes.  Ive more than fulfilled the requirements for the Training Knot and as well I recently lead the creation of a new Pack, but I dont feel its my place to apply for my own awards (Im the CC of the new pack, so again not going to submit my own paperwork).  But I cant help but wonder how the 3rd World Generals I see walking around from time to time managed to accumulate so much flair without doing so.  Not that Im necessarily pineing to join that club, but part of me still feels that adult recognition is a good thing.  It just makes me wonder: why have adult recognition devices when its met with so much indifference? 

 

 

 

 

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I am very thankful for the area I live in and the Scouters I deal with. I've been a Scouter for over 35 years and I can't recall ever being looked down on because I was not wearing any knots (or blin

I've thought about this several times..... my theory us scouters that have interest enough to put energy into it... going to round tables, training, and even reading this forum... we like the "game

Stosh, that's some unusually twisted logic you're weaving with! so:   Character is what a person does  (wears a chestful of knots) when no one is watching. When no one is at RT?  Ah, no YOUTH at RT

Banana Republic Generals always can have at least one row filled as a youth scout...religious knot, AOL and Eagle.  Second row can be training for Cub and another for Training for Boy and that leaves one more for whatever District Award of Merit is pretty easy to get if you are gung ho for a year or two..  So a person can easily fill two rows.  I have two rows and don't have the religious knot even though I'm ordained, never got to AOL nor Eagle.  Saved many lives over the years, but didn't toot my horn.  :)  30+ years will pretty much fill up on their own.  I have never gotten a knot by doing my own paperwork.  Just wasn't worth it.  It's a pretty much hit or miss situation in scouting.

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 Just wondering: who generally fills out the paperwork for Knots/adult awards?  

 

Dunno. Our TC chair has done it in the past but he usually asks the scouter if they want the knot in the first place.

 

For Eagle and AOL knots the scouter themselves do the paperwork and wear the knots. Many do it to show the boys what they can wear when they get older.

 

All other knots are done by the TC.

 

In my unit hardly any scouters wear any knots. Don't feel the need to. Many could have 6-8 knots easy. Just don't see the need.

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Quite a while back someone in our unit informed me that I was qualified for a bunch of these things to which I responded, "I know that. What more is important?"

So they gave me the song and dance about adult recognition...blah,  blah, blah and I finally told them to save their money..that the only two knots I personally valued were the ones for the religious award I earned as a scout and the one for Eagle...that all the rest were just great if someone felt the need to 'compensate' for some personal 'shortcoming'... and that I didn't feel that need.

Their reaction was mixed between shock and consternation. But I never heard another word about it.

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However people feel about knots, some are earned by way of a checklist, and others are by nomination.  Training and position knots can be done by the individual.  It's nice to surprise people with them, but the ultimate 'responsibility' for them is up to the individual who earned them.  Some units will have a person designated to take care of the paperwork, because new folks often don't know about how this all works. 

Some like to wear all of their knots, and some prefer to wear none.  It's up to the individual to wear whichever knots they choose, and for whatever reason. 

If it doesn't appear that someone else is going to fill out the paperwork for something you've earn, feel free to do it yourself. 

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...

For Eagle and AOL knots the scouter themselves do the paperwork and wear the knots. Many do it to show the boys what they can wear when they get older.....

Paperwork? I walked into the scout shop and grabbed them (maybe showed some Id for the Eagle, but didn't have to sign for it. The other one came with a venturing leadership award, I needed a spare, the DE got it for me.

 

Having to complete paperwork is a show-stopper for me.

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From what I've seen, the scouter keeps track of the knot requirements him/herself, gets the initials on the sheet/card as they go, and submits it to the appropriate authority for signature.   They are all available for pdf download at the BSA website.

 

Now and then, someone (CC, district chair, DE) might give a nudge to people who they know are close or have completed the knot already.   The paperwork gets filled out (with a little foot dragging and muttering) and then there are some well-deserved presentations at banquets. 

 

I've got one shirt with my knots sewn on--two from my youth, two as an adult--but I rarely wear it.   My usual uniform shirt has the Eagle knot solo, because I generated just enough interest to sew it on, and then lose interest in the others.    My AOL knot is nice, but I don't wear it.   The training award (when I was an ASM)  and commissioner's key?   Doing my job. 

 

For those that like knots, more power to them.   I know some genuinely kind, warmhearted folks that have a dozen of them, salt of the earth.   On the other hand, I too have experienced the powerful, condescending glare and tone the aforementioned Banana Republic Generals, who wear their knots (and devices thereon) so as to exert authority and glean respect from lesser scouters, such as myself.   Good times! :)

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Paperwork? I walked into the scout shop and grabbed them (maybe showed some Id for the Eagle, but didn't have to sign for it. The other one came with a venturing leadership award, I needed a spare, the DE got it for me.

 

 

Technically you need paperwork. I guess it depends on your scout shop. Big surprise there's no standard process for this, huh? ;)

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In regards to the shop verifying you earned something, it may also depend on how well they know you. When I worked for national supply, I was suppose to see proof that you earned restricted items like knots. But sometimes folks I knew that had earned the item requested, so I wouldn't ask for proof since I knew they had it. I.e. was at the ceremony, heard about the ceremony, saw the newsletter article, etc.

 

Only time I ever sold something to someone with out proof was the Heroism Award knot. I knew what the camp director was doing, buying a uniform for our camp chaplain. The chaplain did earn it as a youth, was even featured in Boys' Life Scouts in Action, and the CD and entire staff wanted the chaplain in a current uniform.

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Paperwork? I walked into the scout shop and grabbed them. . . .

 

Me too. Paperwork? I don't need no stinking paperwork!

 

Hey, one time I was rejoining my old council from long ago, but could never get to Lubbock (where the South Plains Council office was) during business hours. I was in Midland and stopped by the Buffalo Trail Council office, where they don't know me from Adam. I walked in and told them my situation. Said I need an Eagle knot, Scouter's Training Award knot, and Scouter's Key knot. Gimme a Unit Commissioner badge of office, a Trained patch, Arrowhead honor, blah, blah. (I still had extra council strips and lodge flaps from back in the day.) They dug them out and told me how much it cost and I went away with the loot, no ID, no paperwork, nothin. Pretty much how it works out here.

 

This time around, I just joined Buffalo Trail Council a few weeks ago, but bought a lot of my stuff at the South Plains Council office, lol. The only thing I needed from Buffalo Trail was a council strip and a lodge flap. Same stuff, different decade. Told them what I needed and they sold it to me.

 

I grew up an hour and a half from the Council office. Not everyone could get there during business hours. If someone was going, everyone gave them their shopping list. Pretty much any adult could walk in and buy whatever they asked for. Never heard of anyone being asked for paperwork.

(It's more trouble to get the actual medals, but you can buy all the knots you want.)

 

[EDIT: I can buy all the service stars I want, but I have had to actually document dates and such and wait for them to research and verify when putting in for Veteran Pins. Funny because service stars go on the uniform and veteran pins don't. You can't cruise in and buy Wood Badge Beads, or Wood Badge anything. You CAN buy OA sashes, no prob. You can't just buy a Silver Beaver or anything like that, but you could probably get the knot for it.]

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My usual uniform shirt has the Eagle knot solo, because I generated just enough interest to sew it on, and then lose interest in the others.    

On the other hand, I too have experienced the powerful, condescending glare and tone the aforementioned Banana Republic Generals, who wear their knots (and devices thereon) so as to exert authority and glean respect from lesser scouters, such as myself.   Good times! :)

 

Damn Rat!  Makes me want to buy you a beer.  Bet it would be a nice nut-brown ale...

http://lazymagnolia.com/#?post_type=brew

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As for the original question, I'd say District Training Chairman or Unit Commissioner, if those positions are active in your area. District Executive if not.

I'm sort of guessing, which is sad because I used to be a District Advancement Chair (long ago), and a Commissioner (long ago and now new again).

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The training award (when I was an ASM)  and commissioner's key?   Doing my job. 

 

True. If you hold those positions for the required amount of time, and are even halfway doing your job, you've done all the requirements. That's how I got those two knots.

 

 

 

For those that like knots, more power to them.   I know some genuinely kind, warmhearted folks that have a dozen of them, salt of the earth.   On the other hand, I too have experienced the powerful, condescending glare and tone the aforementioned Banana Republic Generals, who wear their knots (and devices thereon) so as to exert authority and glean respect from lesser scouters, such as myself.   Good times! :)

 

:laugh: Guilty, of wearing devices and all - on and off. Love the "Banana Republic Generals"!! Though I'm a bit of a wannabe, I'm still going to use that phrase.

IMG_0842a_zpsorxg0tcj.jpg

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MGood, good evening, and did you sew those knots on yourself?   Doggone, they are straight as an arrow, with discrete stitches.  Seriously, I'm impressed!   I'll spare you a photo of my sewing attempt...it works but it's rather crude.

 

Your experiences with scout store purchases struck a cord...most scout stores I've been to sold me whatever I asked for.   A couple asked for proof of Eagle.

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