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SeattlePioneer

The New Cub Scout Program

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yes, very good point, @@SlowDerbyRacer!

 

I think the other burden is the dimension.

By my thinking, and I could be missing something, but IMHO it just means a small area.  Something the boy can get down and explore up close, without moving....

Maybe it's one small bush

or a puddle

maybe use a magnifying glass.....

it's amazing what we never see when running past....

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I have worked with scouts on a similar requirement for Enviornmental Science MB.  Usually the kids are unaware of the details until I add a few pointers?

What did you see?  Grass

What kind of Grass was it?

Why is that kind of grass growing there, and not another?

What kinds of animals would eat that grass?

A great teaching experience.

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I hope you guys sign up to be Tiger Den Leaders June 1st.

 

 

The new program is going to be much harder to track completion of requirements.  I think the new Tiger Den Handbook has about twice as many pages as the Tiger Cub Den Handbook,  although that's just a casual comparison at the moment.

 

 

I don't doubt that some boys and some parents will like stuff such as the "Backyard Jungle,"  but I'll bet there are a LOT more parents who ignore it and a lot more boys who find it boring.  I suspect the program will be a lot harder for a Tiger Den Leader to conduct,  too.

 

Personally I view Scouting as taking advantage of the natural interests of boys as the basis of activities. You can go a ways from that,  but go too far and you lose a lot of boys. In my opinion,  the new program goes too far.  My guess is a continued decline in Cub Scouts nationally,  continuing or perhaps accelerating recent trends. 

 

But --- time will tell.  Perhaps I'll be proved wrong.

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One thing I've noticed and am preaching at my RTs: you need to coordinate schedules ASAP and PLAN, PLAN, PLAN! Some requirements can be met in a pack activity i.e. we are working on renting a pool to do the aquatics ones for everyone instead of doing it piecemeal by dens. Webnelos and Bears need to work with Tigers and Wolves on certain skills  Again LOTS of planning will be needed.

 

BUT I beleive once we get the planning process worked out, we wil be able to repeat it every year.

 

Just as long as district keeps the original dates for district activities and not change them around last minute.

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I hope you guys sign up to be Tiger Den Leaders June 1st.

 

 

The new program is going to be much harder to track completion of requirements.  I think the new Tiger Den Handbook has about twice as many pages as the Tiger Cub Den Handbook,  although that's just a casual comparison at the moment.

 

 

I don't doubt that some boys and some parents will like stuff such as the "Backyard Jungle,"  but I'll bet there are a LOT more parents who ignore it and a lot more boys who find it boring.  I suspect the program will be a lot harder for a Tiger Den Leader to conduct,  too.

 

Personally I view Scouting as taking advantage of the natural interests of boys as the basis of activities. You can go a ways from that,  but go too far and you lose a lot of boys. In my opinion,  the new program goes too far.  My guess is a continued decline in Cub Scouts nationally,  continuing or perhaps accelerating recent trends. 

 

But --- time will tell.  Perhaps I'll be proved wrong.

well you're may very well be right... I haven't read through the stuff like you have, only a couple of intro lectures....

from my perspective the tiger program does start them too young, so it's balancing on the edge anyway.

I just hope you're not right about loosing more boys.

 

One thing I've noticed and am preaching at my RTs: you need to coordinate schedules ASAP and PLAN, PLAN, PLAN! Some requirements can be met in a pack activity i.e. we are working on renting a pool to do the aquatics ones for everyone instead of doing it piecemeal by dens. Webnelos and Bears need to work with Tigers and Wolves on certain skills  Again LOTS of planning will be needed.

 

BUT I beleive once we get the planning process worked out, we wil be able to repeat it every year.

 

Just as long as district keeps the original dates for district activities and not change them around last minute.

I was under the impression from the u of scouting and other intros I've seen and read, that the program was going to be better and perhaps more completely laid out for the leaders.... If it requires more planning I'm afraid @SeattlePioneer may very well be right!

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I hope you guys sign up to be Tiger Den Leaders June 1st.

 

 

The new program is going to be much harder to track completion of requirements.  I think the new Tiger Den Handbook has about twice as many pages as the Tiger Cub Den Handbook,  although that's just a casual comparison at the moment.

 

 

I don't doubt that some boys and some parents will like stuff such as the "Backyard Jungle,"  but I'll bet there are a LOT more parents who ignore it and a lot more boys who find it boring.  I suspect the program will be a lot harder for a Tiger Den Leader to conduct,  too.

 

Personally I view Scouting as taking advantage of the natural interests of boys as the basis of activities. You can go a ways from that,  but go too far and you lose a lot of boys. In my opinion,  the new program goes too far.  My guess is a continued decline in Cub Scouts nationally,  continuing or perhaps accelerating recent trends. 

 

But --- time will tell.  Perhaps I'll be proved wrong.

This part I agree with.  The new Tiger program is definitely beefed up, at least in terms of volume.  It's much less of an intro program and more akin to the Wolf and Bear models.  I predict this message board will be plastered in the coming year with issues packs are facing with the new Tiger program.  However I see it less as a result of the program content/structure and more because of the learning curve for what are usually new leaders.

 

Under the old program, new Tiger den leaders (dads/moms) could ease into it and learn as they go.  With the amount of content in the new program, Tiger dens need to hit the ground running.  I think packs will need to do a better job supporting these dens and the den leaders from day 1.  There will also be a steep learning curve for new scout families who might not realize all they could and should be doing on their own.  Quality orientation for leaders and families will be critical.

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I have looked at the new Webelos program in depth and compared it against the old one.  It is mostly the same but tweaked IMHO.  I this the fact that the character connections are gone is the biggest win in the new program.  I like that the new program is specific in what is to be done.  I see to many leaders sign off on requirements now that are just done wrong.

 

It isn't perfect, I have issues with some of the omissions but I will approach it with an open mind.

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I was under the impression from the u of scouting and other intros I've seen and read, that the program was going to be better and perhaps more completely laid out for the leaders.... If it requires more planning I'm afraid @SeattlePioneer may very well be right!

 

 

I admit I haven't read any of the materials, been busy playing with my birthday gifts and other tools. But when reveiwing the requirements, and other intro materials for RT, I've noticed that while it is more completely laid out for the leaders, if you look at all of the requirements in toto, you will notice that some activities at the upper levels require the older Cubs to work with the younger Cubs.  Also it may be easier to do some activities as a pack, with each Den doing their own thing within the pack's framework, than every den doing it on their own. Best example of that is the Aquatics Adventures for each level. At the moment, I'm the only one with SSD and SA certifcation. So at the moment, the dens cannot do any swimming or boating activities unless I'm there to provide Qualified Supervision. 

 

The other part of planning has to do with district/council level activities. District organizers need to review the new requirements, discuss with the various packs on when they will be doing the different activities, and plan accordingly. In my neck of the woods, the organizer doesn't do this, and has even changed dates at the last minute. Really screwed up planning by several packs in my area. And with the "2 Meetings and  Go See it" every month for 7 months, I see conflicts arising if things are not well planned.

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This part I agree with.  The new Tiger program is definitely beefed up, at least in terms of volume.  It's much less of an intro program and more akin to the Wolf and Bear models.  I predict this message board will be plastered in the coming year with issues packs are facing with the new Tiger program.  However I see it less as a result of the program content/structure and more because of the learning curve for what are usually new leaders.

 

Under the old program, new Tiger den leaders (dads/moms) could ease into it and learn as they go.  With the amount of content in the new program, Tiger dens need to hit the ground running.  I think packs will need to do a better job supporting these dens and the den leaders from day 1.  There will also be a steep learning curve for new scout families who might not realize all they could and should be doing on their own.  Quality orientation for leaders and families will be critical.

On the other hand,

assuming what you say is true about it being less intro and less able to "ease into it"

it might actually be a good thing.

For the last couple years, i've seen parents reluctant to step up to lead tigers

but when they do they ease into it, and this I'm thinking might set the tone for meeting schedules and agenda that are....well, too relaxed.

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I don't know about the layout for den meetings. I do know that for Pack meetings they seemed they had more meat to it to help organize them.. The old Pack meeting plans gave little to nothing and you were basically left doing it yourself..  So great if you had a hard time figuring out what to do at a pack meeting from month to month.. I would suppose if you have your own clever ideas that you think are better, you can scrap the suggested pack meeting plans and just do your own thing.. (I think).. I mean who is going to throw you out as Cub Master if you take the boys to participate in a community fishing derby rather then follow what the guide suggested for the Pack meeting?  Pack meetings have little effect on rank advancement, and they are mostly all about having fun in a way that all the separate dens feel they are a part of a larger group.

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looking at what I have looked at so far.  I'm much more excited about this program than the previous program.  The way everything is laid out, and all the resources included with each meeting plan will be much nicer for our den leaders.  I agree that coordinating when a den needs to complete a requirement by doing something at a pack meeting, or having to help another den will take some work to figure out, but in the end i think it'll work out.  for us at least.  However we are a pack of about 20-25 boys total.  I can't speak for those of you with 60-70+ kids.  my hats off to you :)

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Seattle,

 

I've been thinking about your post.  My experience at all levels of leading scouts was the first few read throughs an item seemed to be too complicated.  Then my after a bit of time I began to think it was doable piece by piece.

 

I've read your posts for years and know that you accomplish a lot of little things with ease when you get your tiger and parents together.  I think you would be able to do this also with the new program.  And be able to slip in the time honored scouting experiences that may not be in the current program.

 

When I was a youth there was a major change to the scouting program.  My leaders spent time in front of us complaining about it.  (We really wouldn't have noticed the program change, not cause the changes were small, but cause we were kids.)  All the adult negativity diluted our interest.  So whatever you do, do still remain a cheerleader for the SCOUTING MOVEMENT.  I do still believe that working with boys in this program is a privilege and honor.

 

If you move on to other things, thanks for your service.  Once a scout, always a scout.  But I hope you stay on the scouting trail.

 

If you need a donation to gift your pack with tiger books -- PM me.

 

AK

 

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I'm not sure if I fully understand Seattle's thoughts on the environmental thing (and it's related to my profession) but I can envision that a boy might not have a backyard at all. Or even a convenient park. I can envision that a boy may only have the confines of an apartment. The one-foot hike might be inside one of the rooms.

I can see that the way this particular requirement is written is biased in that it assumes a great deal and because of that, a boy might be 'left out' or he might feel left out as a result.

He might ask, "What's a back yard?" "Why don't I have one?" He might think these thoughts and never express them, chosing instead to bury them with all the other doubts and hurts that are buried someplace in his young life.

A bird house? Are you kidding? "What's a bird house?" "I thought they lived in that vacant warehouse across the street along with the scary people who come and go there."

I think I can paritally see SP's frustration.

I loved the cubs. If I had the opportunity the cubs would be my complete focus and I'd go back to them. I don't think I could ever get tired of them, ever.

But I do think that I would take one piece of advice given eariler and that had to do with the comment from Hector Barbosa and apply the program with a bit of creative license (more like guidelines). When the larger organization has lost its grasp on reality, local option is not a bad alternative.

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Howzabout a new motto for Scout Leaders, Tiger thru Eagle::

 

(Dang, how did I get this font? Didn't click on anything, I don't think)

 

"Get'em Out, Get'em Dirty, Get'em interested".

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Regarding the new Cub Scout program, this is an unsolicited comment from a colleague who participated in one of the Philmont conferences last summer that introduced the new Cub Scout program.



"I just pulled out the Tiger DL book and successfully explained the entire program to [my husband], including rank advancement and recognition for Tiger, Wolf, and Bear in less than five minutes. It took me one more minute to add on Webelos/Arrow of Light.

I'm not giddy about the new program or anything. Nope, not at all. Holy crap those Den Leader books are amazing! I want to go back to my [oldest son's] Tiger year and pat my poor beleaguered new leader self on the head and tell her it'll be okay. Of course he has moved on to Boy Scouts and we don't start the new program until June. I'd be just a tad bitter if I didn't have [a younger son] waiting in the wings..."

 

 

I understand that she went in skeptical last summer, and now with the materials in hand, she is a strong advocate.

 

In service,

 

Ken


 

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