National Discourages Debit Cards?

[mattman578 117]

Do not assume the worst.  He read it as sing and tied it into the other thread about having Scouts sing for lost items.

 

Rolling out the lawyer word is way over the top.

come on stosh a subenia that says qwazse on it would be funny as hell

[SSScout 1615]

Llama, Llama, Lama....

[Polaris 32]

If someone manages to get the pin for a debit card (only 4 digits for many cards) they can clean out the account and there is only the best wishes of the bank to protect you from this fraud. 

 

This depends upon when you report the fraud to the bank according to Fair Credit Billing Act and the Electronic Fund Transfer Act.  

 

Source:  http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0213-lost-or-stolen-credit-atm-and-debit-cards

 

If the loss is reported within 2 days for a debit card, the maximum loss is up to $50.  Wait for more than 2 days, you may be responsible for up to $500.  

 

That being said, I asked our banker about this and he said if it is legitimate fraud, not to worry about it.  He said they have clients that report fraud monthly--believe it or not.  

 

For this reason, units utilizing debit cards must be proactive and go online at least 3 days/week to check account activity.  Units cannot wait until the monthly statement arrives in the mail.  Those individuals with debit cards must report all transactions as soon as they are made to those with online access.   

If I see an unusual transaction, I will send a text to the Scouter with the card to inquire about the transaction.  The usual response is, "Oops!  Sorry, I forgot to text you. I went to Wal-Mart today."  

[PA Scoutmaster 38]

Here we go again. Another opinion from the cubicle farm in Irving. Publish the actual policy and let the units take it from there. If national can't write a lucid policy (and yes, I'm snickering as I write that) then hire someone who can.

 

I was going to make Mozart's point. If I want to clean out the troop's account, a credit card will be the most difficult route for me. A couple years ago we had to have a paper check for something on very short notice. The treasurer was away for a week so, as a signatory on the checking account, I went to the bank and asked for a counter check. I was surprised that instead of having a stack of blank checks on the counter, I had to ask -- and pay! -- for a check to be printed with our name and account number. Actually, I got a sheet of three checks, one of which I used for the approved purpose, the other two floated around on my desk until I finally threw them in the shredder. No one knew of the existence of these checks. I could have written them to "cash" and cleaned out the troop account anytime I saw fit.

 

The way I run my own business is if I can't tell my subcontractors "my house keys and credit cards are under the door mat, put them back when you're finished with them" I don't need to be doing business with that guy. Same with troop leaders. Have I ever been burned? No. Could I be burned? Sure. But while BSA sure likes to teach "Trustworthy" I never cease to be amazed a how little faith they put in it.

 

Gotta agree with this. We've used a troop card for many years and have never had any issues. State parks, state forests and a lot of privately owned campgrounds are going to want payment with a card up front to secure a reservation. 

[TAHAWK 1420]

Well I hate to tell you, but our bank DOES protect us. We have it in writing and it is part of our account. 

 

Many banks are offering through federally backed programs insurance on savings and checking if using a debit card. Not all banks do, but many do. If you do your homework you can find one.

Having never had a debit card, I have no idea.  If you use it to buy something to be delivered and it does not show or is not as represented, can you stop payment?

[Polaris 32]

Having never had a debit card, I have no idea.  If you use it to buy something to be delivered and it does not show or is not as represented, can you stop payment?

No.  You cannot stop payment. You would resolve it in this manner:

 

Step 1:

Contact the retailer and explain the problem and settle the issue.  

Step 2:

If this does not resolve the problem, contact the financial institution of the card and file a dispute.  This is then turned over to Master Card or VISA and they will contact the retailer to investigate the issue.  Exceptions to this may include:  "All sales final" sales or an agreed payment per terms of a contract.  Of course, you must be timely reporting the dispute.  

 

Sounds like a credit card, eh?  A lot of folks have misconceptions about debit cards and that they don't offer the same protections as a credit card.  Well, this just isn't true.  Here is an explanation of "What is a Debit Card" per VISA:

 

 "Debit cards are payment cards that debit—or subtract—money directly from your account, as if you were paying with cash or a check. So, for your debit card to work, you must already have the money in your account to cover the transaction. Debit cards are sometimes referred to as check cards. Debit cards differ from credit cards in that credit cards are payment cards that draw from a credit line—money made available by your card Issuer. In many cases, you are given a grace period to pay for your purchases, and if you do not pay in full by the end of this period, you are charged interest. Certain credit card issuers may charge interest from the date of the transaction even if you pay your balances in full every month."

 

Source:  http://usa.visa.com/personal/get-help/financial-skills/debit-cards.jsp

[Gone 435]

Having never had a debit card, I have no idea.  If you use it to buy something to be delivered and it does not show or is not as represented, can you stop payment?

 

For services you can stop payment. My bank has an expedited recovery group where you can stop payment and recovery your money. This does not happen very often but only works in the US. For foreign purchases I always use a CC. The debit card is more accepted than a check so there's that. And if lost/stolen you are protected.

[Rick_in_CA 401]

A lot of folks have misconceptions about debit cards and that they don't offer the same protections as a credit card.  Well, this just isn't true.

Actually, one of the issues with debit cards are authorization holds. It's not uncommon to spend $30 somewhere and find that $200 is "held" for a few days. That happened to a friend of mine. While she had plenty of money in her checking account, the bulk of the funds were "held" so she couldn't pay her rent. It's why many banks recommend against using debit cards at gas stations and hotels.

 

It's one of several reasons why I refuse to have a debit card (even though my bank really wants me to have one).

[Gone 435]

Actually, one of the issues with debit cards are authorization holds. It's not uncommon to spend $30 somewhere and find that $200 is "held" for a few days. That happened to a friend of mine. While she had plenty of money in her checking account, the bulk of the funds were "held" so she couldn't pay her rent. It's why many banks recommend against using debit cards at gas stations and hotels.

 

It's one of several reasons why I refuse to have a debit card (even though my bank really wants me to have one).

 

Find a bank that does not do that then. You guys make it sound like using debit cards is akin to dancing with the Devil. Most major banks don't do this and have the best protection. Smaller banks tend to have higher fees and put holds on certain amounts if you make a purchase and your balance drops below a threshold. But if you maintain a $1000 minimum most banks waive all that stuff. Don't fear change.

 

[packsaddle 753]

Fees? Anyone who is paying fees is paying too much.

To me a debit card is no different from a cash transaction, with virtually the same risks...except..... The 'hold' thing is a real problem that I've encountered before too. I had a Wells Fargo debit card and used it to rent a vehicle in another country. I had plenty in the account to cover the rental but BECAUSE it was a debit card, the RENTAL COMPANY (not the bank) put a hold on an amount that was nearly my entire budget, basically the cost of replacing the vehicle. I didn't know this until I later tried to pay for a student outing for my class. There was nothing available in the account. So I called Wells Fargo who informed me of the hold and that there was nothing the bank could do about it. They informed me that if I had used a credit card instead, I never would have noticed the hold because it would have 'gone away' once I paid the bill at the end. 

But it was too late by that time to change the billing so I ended up putting the entire trip on my personal credit card anyway. When I paid for the rental at the end of the trip, all of a sudden I had the entire budget back again and NOW the budget office was on my back because I was supposed to use that d***** debit card instead of getting reimbursements. That popped the cork and I had a nice chat with them. 

I cut the debit card in half and handed it to them. Never again.

Edited May 2, 2015 by packsaddle

[Rick_in_CA 401]

Find a bank that does not do that then. You guys make it sound like using debit cards is akin to dancing with the Devil. Most major banks don't do this and have the best protection. Smaller banks tend to have higher fees and put holds on certain amounts if you make a purchase and your balance drops below a threshold. But if you maintain a $1000 minimum most banks waive all that stuff. Don't fear change.

Find a bank that doesn't do that? You can't because this is how debit cards work.

 

A lot of it has to do with the merchants, not the bank. For example, most automated gas pumps will put a hold of $75 to $125 on any debit card because they don't know how much gas you are going to pump (which means if you only have $50 in your checking account, you probably can't use it to buy $20 worth of gas because the preauthorization will fail). In theory, they will release the hold when you are done and they charge the actual amount. But some gas stations will wait until the end of the day before releasing the hold. Buy a group of things from an online merchant, it's up to the merchant how to handle the holds. Some do it this way: Buy three things ($100 item, $50 item and a $25 item) for $175. The merchant will put a hold on the debit card for $175. Lets say the $100 item ships first. They will charge $100 to the debit card, but leave the $175 hold, so now you are down $275 on the account. They won't release the original hold until the last item ships (so when the second item ships, you are down $325 for a $175 purchase). Good merchants won't do this (they will release the original hold and issue a new one for the lesser amount). Now bank policies can make this process better or worse so you are correct that good banks can be better here (many have a 72 hour time limits on holds).

 

If you only use your debit card for transactions totals a good deal less than your checking account balance, the holds should never be a problem. But if that isn't the case, you need to know how the holds work or you can get burned (bouncing checks, overdraft fees, declined cards, etc.).

[fred johnson 936]

I must admit that when I see the arguing about protections, pin numbers, etc, my eyes roll back inside my skull.  Debit cards are used by hundreds of millions of people, if not billions.  It's a standard practice and probably as safe or safer than writing checks.  The card is not the controversy.
 
IMHO, the real controversy is this BSA statement.
 

"Online event registration should be paid by a volunteer and reimbursed according to the unit policy for expense reimbursement, which is paid using a two-signature check from the unit."

Volunteers already donate hundreds of hours of their lives and their own funds to support their own participation and the participation of others.  Now, there is a relatively easy and manageable way to simplify the life of volunteers.  Instead of providing guidance to be successful, the suggestion is don't and let the volunteers take the hit again.  IMHO, that's 100% wrong and not recognizing the 

 

Now, I don't believe every registered leader needs a pack/troop bank card, but it is reasonable to let the treasurer, scoutmaster/cubmaster, advancement person and "maybe" the camping coordinator.  

 

• Treasurer needs a card so they can make deposits via ATM after the meetings.  
• Scoutmaster needs one to pay the continual incidental expenses that occur during camp outs or meeting prep.
• Advancement person needs one to pay for the monthly advancements.
• Camping coord may benefit from one, but our solution is the camping coord makes reservations during unit meetings or leader meetings.  So the treasurer or scoutmaster/cubmaster lends them their card.

[Gone 435]

ROFL. I have to laugh.

 

First, if you use a debit card internationally for a major expense like renting a car you're crazy. Read the fine print. They will charge you a full week or more. NO ONE uses a debit card for large purchases internationally. No one!!!

 

As for domestic use, again, find a bank that doesn't charge those fees or put a hold on your account. They DO exist. I was at the bank yesterday and brought this conversation to my branch manager. They agreed some banks do these things but mine doesn't. They don't allow holds on my funds. Period!

 

Do the research.

[packsaddle 753]

You really don't know crap about what happened. There was no 'fine print'. The rental company has a fleet of about 12 cars, purchased used from Japan, most of them with inflated tires. There is no AVIS or Hertz. The rental agreement is MIMEOGRAPHED and then filled by hand and copies made with carbon paper. They run cards with a little attachment to a cell phone. And they don't put  a 'hold' on a week's rental, I could have paid THAT out of pocket, they 'held' about $5000 USD.

Laugh all you want but when I'm handed a debit card by the state and ordered to use it for official travel instead of another purchase method, I do it. So go laugh your way to the governor's mansion..I didn't have a choice. 

Research that!

[Gone 435]

I say again, no one who knows anything about international travel would use a debit card for a major purchase. Lighten up Francis.