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John-in-KC

Get Ready For New Requirements In Faith

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Was anyone else not able to get into the forum for about 4 or 5 hours.. I had something about a database error.. But when I could get back in it seems like all of you have been posting away with no issue..

 

Same here.

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The only way the BSA as a National institution for youth can even propose the idea of encouraging boys into ethical moral decision makers is to put the responsibility of those ideals on a resource that never changes it's virtues of morality. That can only be God.

 

So, do Southern Baptists still hold slavery to be moral?  That's what they said their god approved of when they formed in 1845.

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http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/899

 

WHEREAS, Since its founding in 1845, the Southern Baptist Convention has been an effective instrument of God in missions, evangelism, and social ministry; and

WHEREAS, The Scriptures teach that Eve is the mother of all living (Genesis 3:20), and that God shows no partiality, but in every nation whoever fears him and works righteousness is accepted by him (Acts 10:34-35), and that God has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on the face of the earth (Acts 17:26); and

WHEREAS, Our relationship to African-Americans has been hindered from the beginning by the role that slavery played in the formation of the Southern Baptist Convention; and

WHEREAS, Many of our Southern Baptist forbears defended the right to own slaves, and either participated in, supported, or acquiesced in the particularly inhumane nature of American slavery; and

WHEREAS, In later years Southern Baptists failed, in many cases, to support, and in some cases opposed, legitimate initiatives to secure the civil rights of African-Americans; and

WHEREAS, Racism has led to discrimination, oppression, injustice, and violence, both in the Civil War and throughout the history of our nation; and

WHEREAS, Racism has divided the body of Christ and Southern Baptists in particular, and separated us from our African-American brothers and sisters; and

WHEREAS, Many of our congregations have intentionally and/or unintentionally excluded African-Americans from worship, membership, and leadership; and

WHEREAS, Racism profoundly distorts our understanding of Christian morality, leading some Southern Baptists to believe that racial prejudice and discrimination are compatible with the Gospel; and

WHEREAS, Jesus performed the ministry of reconciliation to restore sinners to a right relationship with the Heavenly Father, and to establish right relations among all human beings, especially within the family of faith.

Therefore, be it RESOLVED, That we, the messengers to the Sesquicentennial meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention, assembled in Atlanta, Georgia, June 20-22, 1995, unwaveringly denounce racism, in all its forms, as deplorable sin; and

Be it further RESOLVED, That we affirm the Bibles teaching that every human life is sacred, and is of equal and immeasurable worth, made in Gods image, regardless of race or ethnicity (Genesis 1:27), and that, with respect to salvation through Christ, there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for (we) are all one in Christ Jesus (Galatians 3:28); and


Be it further RESOLVED, That we lament and repudiate historic acts of evil such as slavery from which we continue to reap a bitter harvest, and we recognize that the racism which yet plagues our culture today is inextricably tied to the past; and

Be it further RESOLVED, That we apologize to all African-Americans for condoning and/or perpetuating individual and systemic racism in our lifetime; and we genuinely repent of racism of which we have been guilty, whether consciously (Psalm 19:13) or unconsciously (Leviticus 4:27); and

Be it further RESOLVED, That we ask forgiveness from our African-American brothers and sisters, acknowledging that our own healing is at stake; and

Be it further RESOLVED, That we hereby commit ourselves to eradicate racism in all its forms from Southern Baptist life and ministry; and

Be it further RESOLVED, That we commit ourselves to be doers of the Word (James 1:22) by pursuing racial reconciliation in all our relationships, especially with our brothers and sisters in Christ (1 John 2:6), to the end that our light would so shine before others, that they may see (our) good works and glorify (our) Father in heaven (Matthew 5:16); and

Be it finally RESOLVED, That we pledge our commitment to the Great Commission task of making disciples of all people (Matthew 28:19), confessing that in the church God is calling together one people from every tribe and nation (Revelation 5:9), and proclaiming that the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is the only certain and sufficient ground upon which redeemed persons will stand together in restored family union as joint-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17).

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Was anyone else not able to get into the forum for about 4 or 5 hours.. I had something about a database error.. But when I could get back in it seems like all of you have been posting away with no issue..

 

I believe the forum was inaccessible to everyone for several hours.  If it looks like people were posting during that time, that is probably because when the problem was resolved, the "clock" had reset itself so it is (or was) about 8 hours off.  Therefore the times you see for messages posted today are probably not correct.  That is now being worked on as well.

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We are remarkably similar because we are decent loving people whose daily actions resemble the scout law. 

 

I can only guess why we are mindbogglingly different. I am a big picture sort of person and we tend to be more pragmatic in are thinking. We appear more black and white, but in reality, it's just coloring within the lines. Adults used to be surprised that I could predict the performance of their unit programs. What they couldn't see is that scouting while complex in its managing, is fairly simple in its design. I try to teach adults the simple basics of scouting here on the forum and in my area, but these basics are so simple that folks don't really believe they have that much application. 

 

So as a big picture guy in this discussion, I can see how morality and ethics get's corrupted when folks take credit for being the best source of living by the scout law and oath. While that does have the appearance of respect, in reality it opens the door to chaos eventually leading corruption. How can a boy equate living the law when his role models consistently lie, cheat, and steal? I'm thinking hypothetically in the big picture of course.

 

The only way the BSA as a National institution for youth can even propose the idea of encouraging boys into ethical moral decision makers is to put the responsibility of those ideals on a resource that never changes it's virtues of morality. That can only be God. You don't have to be religious to understand the importance of pinning to a source that doesn't change with fickle cultures. So, it is just plain logical to hang the values of the scouting program on God. And you don't have to be a genus to see what happens when God is taken out of the program. Morality (law and oath) becomes defined by the man with the biggest stick. What's left dilutes over time and eventually becomes just meaningless words. 

 

A lot of the replies to this discussion are something to the order that if the other is guy acts moral and ethical, that is all the scouts need. True enough I guess in the small picture, but in the bigger picture, our standards of what is acceptable has to be based on perfection so that we always keep raising the bar. We can always do better and here is our target.  I know through the years scouting has had to deal with really bad leaders that embarrassed the program. But the program survived without really taking any hits. That is attributed to the reputation that Scouting teaches boys how to be men of character. And if anyone is held to define the attributes of character, they will quickly lead up to God. If Scouting had started out without God to set the high standards, it would not have survived past those bad leaders because there would not have been anything to show folks that the program was better than the self-serving desires of those men. 

 

So yes, people can be nice by their nature and set good examples of living the scout oath and law simply by the luck of the draw. But the program only survives because it acknowledges a source of moral perfection that can never be changed even with new leaders year after year. Once the BSA starts giving the credit of good moral behavior to man, the program is over because it will no longer be above scrutiny. 

 

Barry

 

Except that even God isn't unchanging, his desires, morality whatever are dependent on what particular sect of Christianity you ascribe to and their interpretations, otherwise we'd only have a single Christian sect. You can argue that that isn't God but in practical terms it is as far as the society affected by those interpretations are concerned. 

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Except that even God isn't unchanging, his desires, morality whatever are dependent on what particular sect of Christianity you ascribe to and their interpretations, otherwise we'd only have a single Christian sect. You can argue that that isn't God but in practical terms it is as far as the society affected by those interpretations are concerned. 

 

God doesn't change, only the traditions of men do.  Interpretations are just one of the many traditions of men.

 

As society changes, interpretations change, traditions change, but God is still the same as always.  If one tradition says one thing and another tradition says something different, they both can't be right, and yet both might be wrong.  Gotta love the arrogance of humanity.

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Well if you are Jewish, you might say what God wanted from us has been unchanging (maybe, I'm not Jewish).. If your Christian there is one big event that stated in a BIG way what God wanted from us had changed.. He came in the form of Jesus Christ..

 

Other religions who do not follow the Judeo/Christian God may have gods that constantly change their expectations.. Who knows..

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Except that even God isn't unchanging, his desires, morality whatever are dependent on what particular sect of Christianity you ascribe to and their interpretations, otherwise we'd only have a single Christian sect. You can argue that that isn't God but in practical terms it is as far as the society affected by those interpretations are concerned. 

God is omniscience,  man is not. 

 

Barry

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God is omniscience,  man is not. 

 

Barry

 

And since we only have the claims of other people on what god may or may not want, what can you conclude about all statements about what god wants?

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And since we only have the claims of other people on what god may or may not want, what can you conclude about all statements about what god wants?

In the context of this discussion, that is up to the scout and his families interpretation of God in their religion. 

 

In my religion, God wants us to be holy.

 

Barry

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God is omniscience,  man is not. 

 

Barry

Yes but as far as society is concerned God is whatever the preacher says and that is what the morality is built on thus the morality for Christians/Jews/etc is no more set than for anyone else.

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Yes but as far as society is concerned God is whatever the preacher says and that is what the morality is built on thus the morality for Christians/Jews/etc is no more set than for anyone else.

Well I am speaking in this discussion from an ideological perspective of integrity on building character. Ignoring the chaos of the actual applications of religion, who do you trust more in setting the definition of morality, God or man? Now some folks might say man for whatever reason, but my point is that the vast majority of people even today believe God to be the ultimate authority on the subject morality. So for any organization to have integrity in the business of developing character, God is their best resource.

 

If poll was taken that asked of an organization that helped youth develop character, what would be the top three answers? What links those three together?

 

The challenge of learning God's true word on the subject morality in this pop culture is a different discussion of which I'm sure many here would enjoy. 

 

Barry

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Well I am speaking in this discussion from an ideological perspective of integrity on building character. Ignoring the chaos of the actual applications of religion, who do you trust more in setting the definition of morality, God or man?

 

You seem to have missed my point in my previous post -- the ONLY definitions of morality we have are from people, including people who claim to be speaking for god(s).

 

It's people all the way up.

 

So you aren't comparing the opinion of men vs. god, you're comparing the opinion of men vs. men, but you are mistaking it for the former.

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