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Patrols do KP separately.  Three tubs as noted above -  "cold" chlorine rinse as final step.  Each patrol has a salvaged dish washer rack for air drying.

 

In below freezing weather, we do use a propane burner (Think turkey frying.) to heat water for the patrols to come and get for their respective sites.  

 

We were using the three-tub method at the 85 Jamboree and waited 25 years for BSA to conform to recognized practices by adding a cold sanitizing rinse. 

 

When backpacking, the large patrol kit pot is the wash tub.  Soap, brush, rinse.  Dishes are rinsed over the "wash pot" with a cub or ladle of hot clean water from the hot water bucket.  This adds to the wash water for larger items and items needing soaking.  The only tub is for sanitizing after the hot water rinse.  A patrol can often do all their dishes with 8 qts of hot water plus the cold for the final sanitizing rinse   (Adults can often do the deed with one gallon of hot water.).

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When backpacking, the large patrol kit pot is the wash tub.  Soap, brush, rinse.  Dishes are rinsed over the "wash pot" with a cub or ladle of hot clean water from the hot water bucket.  This adds to the wash water for larger items and items needing soaking.  The only tub is for sanitizing after the hot water rinse.  A patrol can often do all their dishes with 8 qts of hot water plus the cold for the final sanitizing rinse   (Adults can often do the deed with one gallon of hot water.).

Your system is good and appropriate, but has your crews tried sumping, because that method looses Zero water for cleaning? Our part of the country has been in a drought for several years and water can be hard to find in some areas. One gallon of water is pretty valuable. 

 

Barry

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sumping?  no water?

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I forgot to mention the rubber scraper.  Critical item for low-water use dish washing.

 

The backpacking method I described, plus the scraper and perhaps use of some AP to remove residue, is the method Philmont now teaches.  I learned it as a Scout in California, where some backpackers required us to pack in all the water we would use.  Others "sand washed," but our troop didn't on grounds that the critters dug up the used sand and spread the mess.

 

When I was at Philmont in 1990, they were still teaching the unsafe official BSA method (chlorine uselessly in the hot rinse water) while urging through scraping of dishes before washing.  They were also trying to make the "runs" a fun part of the Philmont experience; it featured in the campfire.  Ho ho ho.  My three crews did not use the BSA method and the only GI problem was one episode of food [poisoning from spoiled rations. (We would not have eaten the stuff except the prior two days food had also been spoiled, and we were desperately hungry.  Here's a tip.  When the mac and cheese is three years out of date, don't eat it.  The 30,000 calorie shortfall was expected.  The spoiled food was not.  I understand the food situation is much better.

 

Calling it "sumping" adds to the special language of Philmont. 

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sumping?  no water?

Sumping is where the every single bit of food is consumed with the objective of leaving the cooking and eating utensils basically clean, basically. Then at the next meal time after a pot of water is brought to a boil, the cooking and eating utensils are dunked for sterilizing. Once sterilizing is done, cooking can be started using the boiled water. For the purpose of this discussion, sterilizing occurs first in the tasks of preparing and eating the meal instead of last and doesn't require additional water for clean up. It has drawbacks, like eating all the food even when it taste very bad (burned). 

 

Barry

Edited by Eagledad

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Calling it "sumping" adds to the special language of Philmont. 

Probably true, but we learned term by LNT backpacking guides. 

 

Barry

Edited by Eagledad

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  • And I did not - nine months ago - which is one problem with special language.  In  Googling  boy scout LNT sumping, both response from BSA expressly excluded the word "sumping."

     

     

Edited by TAHAWK

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LOL, yah who knows how, where and when terms were made popular. We heard and learned the term back in 1995 by an backpacking guide. Not from scouting. But who knows where the they learned them. 

 

Barry

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Sumping is where the every single bit of food is consumed with the objective of leaving the cooking and eating utensils basically clean, basically. Then at the next meal time after a pot of water is brought to a boil, the cooking and eating utensils are dunked for sterilizing. Once sterilizing is done, cooking can be started using the boiled water. For the purpose of this discussion, sterilizing occurs first in the tasks of preparing and eating the meal instead of last and doesn't require additional water for clean up. It has drawbacks, like eating all the food even when it taste very bad (burned). 

 

Barry

 

We did that when we were out at Philmont two years ago.  Definite lack of water when we were out there.

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Sumping is the process of separating the food particles from the food liquids.

 

The liquids are disposed of as in a cat hole process and the food particles are either burned in a fire or packed out.  One cannot effectively dispose of soups and stews in a fire because of all the excess liquids that would reduce the fire's potential.

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This illustrates the problem of special language.

 

Another version, out of 42,3000 hits on Google:

 

 

 

The official Human Sump Method: After eating your meal in your bowl/cup, you scrape the sides with your spoon to get as most food off as possible. You then add a tiny bit of water to help scrape more food off. This is then drunk (it is only water and food, no soap). More water is used until all large food particles have been cleaned from the container. This virtually eliminates yum yum (the extra food particles left over from dishwashing). To take it a step further, the 2 pot method can be used just to make sure everything is nice and clean.

 

2 pot method: Most crews who cook their meals, put all the food in one of the big 6 or 8 qt pots to cook/serve from. When all the food has been eaten, some of the cooler crews will human sump this pot. Or atleast scrape and lick the food out. This is then given water (cool or warm, it doesn't matter) with about 2 drops of camp suds. The second 8 qt pot (the rinse pot) is used for rinsing off the campsuds. The personal dishes are washed in the dirty pot and rinsed in the rinse pot. Once the personal dishes are clean, the scrubbie is then applied to the cooking pot (which by this point should be mostly clean). After the food particles have been loosened, this water is dumped into the sump through the sump frisbee.

 

The sump is a pipe in the ground that takes your waste water (from dishes) and puts it about 3 feet down into the ground and is then dispersed along about a 10 ft long section of PVC pipe with holes in it. Now part of the rinse water is dumped in the cooking pot to get more food particles out by swishing it around. Andif there are any more remaining, more water is dumped out into the cooking pot. By the time you get to your last rinse of the cooking pot, it should just be water, no food. Save this last bit for the magic of the sump. The sump frisbie is removed and the glorious wire mesh sump screen is revealed. The wookie knife (aka rubber sraper or sump scraper) is then tapped on the screen while the crew chants "Ohhhhh sump clump. Ohhhh sump clump" Magically, the food parts that slipped through the frisbee will all come to gether and form a clump in the center of the screen where the scrapper removes them to the yum yum bag. The remaining clean dish water is then dumped over the screen to remove the remaining smells (or many of them anyway). If a small pine or fir cone are handy, this can then be LIGHTLY scrubbed on the screen to remove more food particles and give the screen a nice piney fresh scent. The cone is then tossed into the woods.

 

Now I know that a rubber scraper is to be referred to as a "wookie knife."  0___0

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We have one central wash station prepared by the fireman. It's a three compartment "sink" set up just like you would find in any commercial kitchen. We use our state health department guidelines.  Two metal buckets on a two burner stove, One hot water (100-120 degrees) with soap, one hot for rinse and third bucket with room temp water with Sterimine tablets. (One per one gal of water)  Bleach is ok but it's too easy to use too much. Bleach as a sanitizer should not exceed 200 part per million (about 1/2oz per gal or water) or it becomes a poison. 

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