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LeCastor

Last Child in the Woods, by Richard Louv

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Have them watch that Hiking show on Netfix about the Muir Trail

 

 

Jason, I actually watched that this past weekend. Very pretty.

 

I'd rather the Scouts know a little bit more about what John Muir did during his lifetime, though. The National Parks documentary that Ken Burns did for PBS is long but very well done.

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Yes, he was the naturalist on board the Beagle, the ship he took to the Galapagos. He made observations on all sorts of things from birds to barnacles to worms.

 

The 5 year trip where his aristocratic friends procured him a job on the H. M. S. Beagle as the Captain's "companion and naturalist" even though he had absolutely no training whatsoever as a naturalist??? Darwin only recorded the findings of the real naturalist on board the Beagle at the time. After all he was a trained theologian which he later used as a means to try and discredit Christianity with his "Theory" of evolution which he accumulated up from the writings of others including those of Aristotle, Socrates and Plato. Darwin's only training was in theology, nothing in the world of science. I really won't go so far as to give him any credit as a naturalist. :) P. T. Barnum would have been proud of him.

 

Stosh

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Oh, Stosh, you're getting caught up in the minutiae here. :)

 

To borrow another phrase from the Big Lebowski, "[Charles Darwin} is not the issue here, man..."

 

The point is, physical fitness classes are being cut in schools and video games are taking over. I know there is a strong math and science push these days but I don't think it should be to the detriment of our youth's exposure to nature.

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Second Class, req.#6: .Identify or show evidence of at least 10 kinds of wild animals (birds, mammals, reptiles, fish, mollusks) found in your community.

Can your Scout use a cellcamera to take pictures of these critters to show you to pass the requirement? Or do you ask them to walk thru the woods with you and point them out "in person"?

 

How about First Class #6? Is a picture worth a couple of finger pointings?

 

 

 

First, a scout does not have to show me anything. Our PL's sign off on requirements. Things that I suggest that they require for signoff include but not limited to ...

  • Assisted by a map, a verbal description of each find (location, type of evidence, estimated size or numbers, particular activity).
  • Notepad with drawings. Reference to the page in the field guide used for identification.
  • DNA samples, with lab results. (Okay, just joking!)
  • Pictures, with labels.
  • Audio recordings.

Even if the PL is present when the boy does his little exploration, I encourage him to review each find using the one of the above methods. Finger-pointing in the moment does not cut it. If he can't recall 10 items that he just saw, he wasn't paying enough attention and did not fulfill the requirement.

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Finger-pointing in the moment does not cut it. If he can't recall 10 items that he just saw' date=' he wasn't paying enough attention and did not fulfill the requirement.[/quote']

 

And, yes, he and his buddies can try to recall them together! This is one of those situations where learning as a group reinforces knowledge.

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Oh, Stosh, you're getting caught up in the minutiae here. :)

 

I know there is a strong math and science push these days but I don't think it should be to the detriment of our youth's exposure to nature.

 

 

When I take youths on hike and go exploring its a whole new world to them. Instead of JUST hiking i am looking for cool things to show them. Mushrooms, Funnel Spiders, holes in the trees these kids EAT this stuff up. I love taking the boys into the woods to explore

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The 5 year trip where his aristocratic friends procured him a job on the H. M. S. Beagle as the Captain's "companion and naturalist" even though he had absolutely no training whatsoever as a naturalist??? Darwin only recorded the findings of the real naturalist on board the Beagle at the time. After all he was a trained theologian which he later used as a means to try and discredit Christianity with his "Theory" of evolution which he accumulated up from the writings of others including those of Aristotle, Socrates and Plato. Darwin's only training was in theology, nothing in the world of science. I really won't go so far as to give him any credit as a naturalist. :) P. T. Barnum would have been proud of him.

 

Stosh

 

So Darwin "had absolutely no training whatsoever as a naturalist"? Really? So those years at the University of Edinburgh studying with the marine biologist Robert Edmond Grant don't count? Or his membership in the Plinian Society (a society for students of natural history)? Or when at Cambridge his botany studies with John Stevens Henslow don't count either? Yes, Darwin's father sent him to Edinburgh to study medicine, and to Cambridge to study theology, but Darwin studied to become a naturalist instead.

 

And yes, he wasn't the official naturalist on the Beagle, that was the ship's surgeon Robert McCormick, but McCormick left the five year voyage after only a year (McCormick felt that Darwin had supplanted him as the official naturalist). And yes, Darwin was young and inexperienced when he joined the Beagle, but that doesn't mean that his research was all cribbed from others. And yes, Darwin didn't invent the idea of evolution out of whole cloth, but built on earlier ideas (just as Albert Einstein built his work on the work Maxwell, Lorentz and others, and Max Planck and others went on to build on the work of Einstein), but that is the scientific process.

 

So sorry to burst your fact free bubble, but to say that Charles Darwin wasn't a naturalist is silly.

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Jason, glad to see I'm not alone. When I go for a walk in the woods/fields I want to be able to identify every bird, tree, track, bug etc ....as well as understanding their uses and/or habits.

Will I ever get there? Nope. I don't have the 20-30 years of free time it would take (and that's just in my neck of the woods)

Will I stop trying? No again

I just love it when a tenderfoot shows me a "cool track" he found in the mud. Then we can figure out what made it together.

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I'm not against exposing our youth to true nature, legitimate science and a whole ton of proper teachings. I don't mind people citing people like Muir as a source of inspiration either. However I would prefer citing Jules Verne before I would give credit to Charles Darwin for a source of legitimate inspiration. Whereas Verne has been recognized by the BSA as worthwhile for boys, Darwin never has. Verne's SCIENCE fiction has pretty much all come true over time. 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea is a classic example of science fiction theory becoming reality. Since Darwins theories can not be replicated in a laboratory nor has it ever been witnessed in nature, it cannot be defined as science. Let's go with theology instead, Darwin was indeed trained in that. If it's theology, then maybe one ought to be a bit reverent towards others' beliefs and not fall victim to Darwinism as a legitimate science. Scientology might come out sounding a bit scientific, but in reality it too, is theology, not science.

 

I'm a naturalist too. Never spent 5 minutes in a classroom learning anything scientific about becoming a naturalist, but according to the tract taken by Darwin, I am theologically trained and spend a lot of time in the woods. Maybe I ought to write a book about something I know nothing about, too. After all, copying the works of others is in vogue now-a-days.

 

Yes, Darwin's father sent him to Edinburg to study medicine which he had no interest in and dropped out. Then he went to Cambridge to study theology which he did finish and was awarded a degree, the only one he earned.

 

I will admit Darwin might have had an interest in being a naturalist by hobby, but as an educated scholar in the field? Not valid.

 

If one can't wrap their minds around what Darwin was up to... "As a result of his observations in and around South America while on the Beagle, however, plus the reading of Malthus shortly after his return to England, Darwin very quickly became a theistic evolutionist. This phase did not last long either, and he soon was a thoroughgoing materialist, or at least an agnostic, long before he published his Origin. In his autobiography he testified: "I had gradually come, by this time [that is, by 1837, just after his experience on the Beagle.] to see that the Old Testament, from its manifestly fake history of the world...was no more to be trusted that the sacred books of the Hindus, or the beliefs of any barbarian." (Charles Darwin, The Autobiography of Charles Darwin, with Original Omissions Restored, Nora Barlow, ed. (New York: Norton, 1969), p. 87. The editor was Darwin's grandaughter.)

 

This thread obviously speaks to religion, not scientific naturalism which every boy should have a handle on, but leave the theology out of it.

 

Stosh

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And while Richard Louv has penned a provocative number of books and is regarded by many as being skilled in a number of different mediums, his degree training is in journalism. His work is observable, and the conclusions he draws can be retested and proven and thus he is considered quite knowledgeable on the subject of nature and the development of children in our society. So his work is scientific, not theological in nature. Excellent book by the way. Something every SM should have a basic understanding of.

 

Stosh

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When I take youths on hike and go exploring its a whole new world to them. Instead of JUST hiking i am looking for cool things to show them. Mushrooms' date=' Funnel Spiders, holes in the trees these kids EAT this stuff up. I love taking the boys into the woods to explore [/quote'] Awesome, Jason! That's what you should be doing. Green Bar Bill said every hike should have a purpose! LeCastor

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And while Richard Louv has penned a provocative number of books and is regarded by many as being skilled in a number of different mediums' date=' his degree training is in journalism. His work is observable, and the conclusions he draws can be retested and proven and thus he is considered quite knowledgeable on the subject of nature and the development of children in our society. So his work is scientific, not theological in nature. Excellent book by the way. Something every SM should have a basic understanding of. Stosh[/quote'] Whew, glad we're off that Darwin rant! :)

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Not a problem as long as one sticks with science in a STEM discussion.

 

Um, Stosh, you're the first one to use that acronym in this thread. ;)

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