Medical Forms - Please Interpret the following:

[T2Eagle 902]

A couple of misunderstandings in your post debbi1821. First, it is simply not true that two adults are required for all activities. From the G2SS. "There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when the presence of adult leaders is not required and adult leadership may be limited to training and guidance of the patrol leadership. With the proper training, guidance, and approval by the troop leaders, the patrol can conduct day hikes and service projects."

 

BSA insurance is always secondary insurance, that is it covers what your own medical insurance won't cover, including co-pays and deductibles. You don't have to sue you just have to file the proper claim forms. If you, or a scout, don't have any medical coverage then it becomes the primary coverage for any injury you suffer while at a scout activity. Neither medical forms, nor uniforms, nor tour permits, nor clean underwear, nor a whole host of other urban legend restrictions, are necessary for you to be covered by the insurance, you merely need to be at a scout function or activity. The scouts actually do a very good job of covering their leaders, parents, and scouts when the rubber really hits the road with regard to expensive injuries.

 

So what do you think would have happened differently if there had been a med form at the meeting where the den leader slipped?

 

 

[Eagle94-A1 2685]

Debbie 821,

 

As others have pointed out the Guide to Safe Scouting does allow patrols to do day activities without any leaders, or 1 leader present.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416.pdf

 

There are a few instances, such as patrol activities, when the presence of adult leaders is not required and adult leadership may be limited to training and guidance of the patrol leadership. With the proper training, guidance, and approval by the troop leaders, the patrol can conduct day hikes and service projects.

 

This exact same passage is found twice in the GTSS on pages 2 and 8.

 

Further on in the GTSS is this passage

 

Patrol Activities A Boy Scout patrol or Varsity Scout squad may participate in patrol activities with the permission of its Scoutmaster or Coach and parents/guardians. Appropriate adult leadership must be present for all overnight Scouting activities.

PP 31-32.

 

Don't take our word on it, look it up on the link and pages provided.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

[debbi821 10]

Thanks for the info on Guide to Safe Scouting.... but what about Youth Protection and 2 deep leadership? I completely see the boys doing a day Patrol meeting/hike without an adult. But, our troop says as an adult, if my son's patrol wants to go swimming at the rec center and I chose to stay, I have to have another adult there with me, because of Youth Protection.... How great it would be if I didn't need that other adult! His patrol could do a lot more things!!!

[T2Eagle 902]

debbi821,

 

The YPT rules basically breakdown this way:

 

1) Never be alone with a kid!

2) If the activity is an overnight outing you must have two adults, and there are specific rules about who the adults can be.

3) For non overnight activities, you can have one adult accompanying two or more scouts so long as the situation never puts you in violation of #1.

 

For an easy example of #3 think of a merit badge counseling session. Johnny scout wants to work with Committee Member Jane on a Citizenship badge. Johnny scout contacts CM Jane to meet with her, CM Jane who will be at home by themselves this afternoon, can invite Johnny to her house as long as he is accompanied by someone else. It is perfectly fine for that someone else to be just a fellow scout. Here's the quote from the Guide to Advancement.

"A youth member must not meet one-on-one with an adult. Sessions with counselors must take place where others can view the interaction, or the Scout must have a buddy: a friend, parent, guardian, brother, sister, or other relativeâ€â€or better yet, another Scout working on the same badgeâ€â€along with him attending the session."

 

SO, clearly, according to the BSA, you do not need two adults for Youth Protection in every circumstance. You can easily, as far as BSA rules go, apply this to your scenario of your accompanying a group of scouts to the Rec Center (there are additional rules about Safe Swimming, but most commercial facilities will easily cover them).

 

Having said that, your troop can decide that for troop sanctioned activities you want to have tighter rules and require two adults. But you should at least understand the rules and that you're requiring more than BSA requires rather than misunderstand the rule.

 

As an example, BSA does not require that non registered adults take YPT as a condition of accompanying scouts on a camping trip, but our troop has decided that we will require that, even knowing it is more than is required by BSA. Our reasoning was that if everyone has had the basic, rudimentary training, it will prevent any innocent, inadvertent breaches.

 

 

 

[qwazse 4342]

... How great it would be if I didn't need that other adult! His patrol could do a lot more things!!! ...

 

That's what is intended for patrols ... greatness.

 

It could be your troop's COR is insisting that things be more stringent. Let's face it, if a group of boys are discourteous in broad daylight in front of one ASM, a knee-jerk reaction would be to insist that two adults team up as "minders" for each patrol. And suddenly, it's the unwritten law of the land. As with all such fabrications, unpack this one gently. Figure out if there was any real negative experiences that are driving it. Ask if there is a way a patrol can build up enough trust to operate more independently.

 

The truth is, in a couple if years the boys will do this anyway. The only question is if they will do it with or without the BSA.