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I wouldn't suggest calling the cops on it' date=' but questioning is in order. Do you and NJ seriously beleive that, or are you just being devil's advocates.[/quote']

 

Perdidochas, both Packsaddle and I said it was reasonable to "question" the leader who did this. However, many of the comments in this thread (including some of those of the original poster) have gone far beyond "questioning."

 

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Technically, renting a movie from Blockbuster/Netflix/Redbox and showing it at a pack meeting, would be a violation as well. They aren't licensed for public viewings. Our library does group viewings

Thank you S915. I vote for your interpretation, but I go with Pack's approach, and Tahawk's expectation.....

How does one recalibrate a compass to point somewhere other than north?

 

Of course a little fuzzy logic goes a long way to convince others where true north really is. Unfortunately fuzzy logic and morality don't make good companions.

 

Stosh

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There is pre-DVD release of movies for institutional viewings, such as college campuses, camps, and other group viewing locations. Big Hero 6 hit this marked on January 20th: http://colleges.swankmp.com/new-releases Swank licenses releases for Disney, Sony, MGM, etc. Other studios (Paramount, Fox, Dreamworks release through Criterion: http://www.criterionpicusa.com/release-schedule/coming-soon

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I hope we can distinguish between thoughtless violations and knowing violations. I also hope that a calm, adult conversation would lead to an end to such activity. without hard feelings.

 

How bad does something illegal have to get before we report it? Turning a blind eye makes one an accomplice. Maybe one ought to check their own moral compass before looking at the next guy's.

 

Stosh

 

Yes. Judgment is required,.

 

Turning a blind eye presents an ethical issue as contrasted to a legal issue ("accomplice") Few jurisdictions retain the concept that failing to report a felony is, itself, a crime.

 

It is obviously wrong. Devils advocate here... what if they were handing out copies from a book that showed the scouts how to tie knots? More than likely that would violate a copyright.

 

It is amazing how much people no longer value intellectual property. It is pretty common to do a search on some subject and you find different websites that have the same text, one of the sites copied w/o referencing the original text.

 

There is, as someone else noted, the "Fair Use" doctrine. Copying a couple of pages for the kids is probably OK. Selling copies of a couple of pages is not' Porky Pig stuttering "That's all folks" to end a home-made video is probably also Fair Use. Playing the entirety of what must be a pirated copy is anther thing entirely.

 

 

Speaking of intellectual property, I came across an interesting bit of language regarding BSA's ownership of the "Boy Scout" and "Scout" marks. The Congressional Record contains these words explaining why the exclusive right is being granted: "If any boy can secure these badges without meeting the required test the badges will soon be meaningless and one of the leading features of the Scout program will be lost. "

 

Merit Badge mills anyone?

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Merit Badge mills anyone?

 

That was a delicious comparison!

As for Fair Use, I employ this legal doctrine very frequently and I have studied the doctrine with respect to my use of it to some depth. Based on what I know of Fair Use and the BSA program as delivered by troops, etc, I seriously doubt that many events could qualify for Fair Use...but I also doubt that a MB mill would likely receive a 'cease and desist' letter either.

However if anyone thinks they might like to know a little more about Fair Use, the Duke University Law School has a very entertaining online comic book that explores the incredible intricacies of Fair Use:

http://web.law.duke.edu/cspd/comics/zoomcomic.html

It is sometimes informative AND hilarious.

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I don't see this as any different than going a couple miles per hour over the posted speed limit......but that's just me. I'm about as far from Hollywood as one can get. lol

 

I watched the movie "Gone Girl" the other night on DVD. Prior to the movie starting, there was a copyright disclaimer that said illegal pirating of the DVD is punishable up to 5 years in prison and up to $100,000 fine if caught.

 

Going a couple miles over the speed limit gets you a warning if caught. No fine, no prison time...

 

Hardly the same...

 

To me, there is no justification for this...especially in a scout setting. Nobody's perfect, but I'm hearing some downright scary stuff on here in regards to examples being set by scout leaders in regards to what is right and wrong and which laws should and can be ignored. By the way, is there a chapter in the scout book on this? If so, I missed it...

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Regardless of the release date, movies are released for home use, not public viewing. It involves more than simply having the DVD and tossing it into a DVD player and having a more than family audience.

 

Stosh

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Scouter915' date=' you say this occurred recently. How recently? More to the point, was it on (or after) January 20? (If you read Fehler's post, above, you will see why I ask.) On a possibly related note, have you asked the event leader about this yet?[/quote']

 

It was prior to Jan 20th and I believe you know good and well the hoops one would have to jump through to get a special permission from a major studio to show a current theatrical release to a dozen cub scouts at the local armory...

 

I asked 2 den leaders about the movie and they are pointing the finger at the head pack master for supplying the movie. I have not talked to him yet...I'm not sure I need to play Sherlock Holmes any further on this. I think the answer to my questions are there...

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I don't see this as any different than going a couple miles per hour over the posted speed limit......but that's just me. I'm about as far from Hollywood as one can get. lol

A few miles per hour over the speed limit is not punishable in most jurisdictions (a few miles per hour over, IMHO, means 3 or 4). A speeding ticket is maybe $150 fine. The fine for illegal pirating of movies is from $750 to $30,000, and is a federal offense.

 

The main point is that it's not an example that a Scout leader should be setting.

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Back in High School (you all remember High School, right?), I was the AV guy. Even was trusted with door keys. I helped with "movie nights", 16mm projectors, sound systems, extra exciter bulbs, etc. I have a (foggy) memory of the rental agreements involved.... if the movie was NOT Disney, you could show it FREE to a school group, ONCE (don't try to rewind it). We often did rewind (shudder) and show it again. The agreement was for a particular day, it arrived (by mail!) and was expected back in the mail the next available day. If we were "asking for donations" (charging admission) the rental fee was doubled. If it WAS a Disney film, the rental was more, the agreement specified we could NOT charge admission, NOT show it "publicly" and we DEFINITELY could NOT show it more than once. It had to be returned on the rewind reels provided.

Ah, those were the days. The romance of projection....

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