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Basementdweller

Why Don't you pay for it?

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Cambridgeskip, I like it!

 

BENEFITS: While no health or dental insurance, no pension, no tuition

reimbursement, no paid holidays and no stock options are offered; this

job supplies limitless opportunities for personal growth and free hugs for

life if you play your cards right.

 

Wait, hugs? From children that are not mine? From young girls? As a single man!? My life will be destroyed! I'll probably go to jail!!!

 

Unfortunatly, I wish I was completely joking. Teachers here are advised to never hug a student, let alone touch them to avoid accusations of inappropriate contact. I remember my first grade teacher gave great hugs (that was before society was constantly looking through the "all strangers are potential pedophiles" lens). Are things different in the UK?

 

To keep this on topic, Basement, I think your parents are way out of line asking you to pay. I wonder, did the parent that made the suggestion really expect you to pay, or was it really a bit of snark of the form: "Well if he thinks it's such a good idea, why doesn't he pay for it" that got out of hand?

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Cambridgeskip, I like it!

 

 

 

Wait, hugs? From children that are not mine? From young girls? As a single man!? My life will be destroyed! I'll probably go to jail!!!

 

Unfortunatly, I wish I was completely joking. Teachers here are advised to never hug a student, let alone touch them to avoid accusations of inappropriate contact. I remember my first grade teacher gave great hugs (that was before society was constantly looking through the "all strangers are potential pedophiles" lens). Are things different in the UK?

 

 

Are things different? Yes and no. Certainly an adult would be expected to tread with caution with any kind of physical contact and if in doubt you just wouldn't. But equally I've had kids (both boys and girls) throw their arms round me when moving onto explorers or at Christmas or at the end of a longer camp. I have put my arm round a couple of kids that were going through a particularly hard time. It's not something I would do on a regular basis and certainly don't go actively looking for it, that would be a bit creepy. Just on an occasion it is appropriate. I try not to be too paranoid. I do know adults though who would run a mile at the idea of course and that is down to them.

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I agree that being told by a parent or group of parents that they expect me to pay anything would send me packing. But that being said I have 1 scout that attends everything possible. Helps at fundraisers, service projects, does his positions, etc... But last night when me and a committee member found out the only reason he wasn't doing our climbing event was because the family was short on funds due to time of year and just couldn't swing this one - we raced for our wallets and CM won. The boy tried to turn it down - we told him to respect his elders, have fun, and remember it when he gets older and can return the favor to someone else.

 

Now if all the parents found out and started hitting us up this would stop, but we know the situation and both were willing to help out. And this was no begging, no complaining. The boy wasn't even pouting about not being able to go. He just simply said he wasn't able to go this time and when he was offered a ride and said that he still couldn't go we knew what was up.

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I doubt anyone among us haven't done the same. Twocubmom and I have sent several kids, besides our own, to summer camp over the years. If you've followed the forums for awhile, you know Base's troop is in a underprivileged area and he constantly picks up the check for his Scouts. But there is a clear difference between offering to help a deserving kid and the sort of demanding entitlement these parents demonstrated.

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What is the culture like in the USA? Here in the UK it is pretty standard that in any letter or email to parents about a given camp we would include a line along the lines of "If the only reason your child cannot is tend is cost then please contact either one of the leaders or group treasurer in confidence. We have a limited amount of funds available to assist and can make alternative arrangements".

 

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What is the culture like in the USA? Here in the UK it is pretty standard that in any letter or email to parents about a given camp we would include a line along the lines of "If the only reason your child cannot is tend is cost then please contact either one of the leaders or group treasurer in confidence. We have a limited amount of funds available to assist and can make alternative arrangements".

 

'Skip, it varies. Many parents who need it are too proud to speak up (rugged individualists), and many who don't are quick to milk the system for all it's worth. In our neck of the woods, we've found it best to have that policy, but not put it in writing. We train our adult leaders to be on the look-out for boys and families who might be in a bind. The SM has a discretionary fund for minor things. For substantial expense, he can meet with the treasurer and committee chair to make an executive decision. At the next committee meeting, the treasurers report will have that decision of the amount spent without mentioning names or number of kids assisted.

 

This sounds a little cloak-and-dagger, but we have parents and boys who would not accept charity if they ever thought word would get out. And, we have the occasional boy who wants to go on a big trip, but his spending priorities put making payments for the next adventure at the bottom of his list.

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What is the culture like in the USA? Here in the UK it is pretty standard that in any letter or email to parents about a given camp we would include a line along the lines of "If the only reason your child cannot is tend is cost then please contact either one of the leaders or group treasurer in confidence. We have a limited amount of funds available to assist and can make alternative arrangements".

 

Cambridgeskip, in my troop it is "generally understood" that if a parent has a legitimate problem in paying, they should approach the SM or CC and money will be found so that the Scout can participate. We do not put it in writing. And I did put "generally understood" in quotation marks, meaning that we probably could do a better job of communicating it. But parents have come to the leaders on occasion, and things get worked out. We are fortunate enough to have a couple of "friends of the troop" (outside of the leadership) who have made it known that they are willing to help when needed.

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That's fairly standard here, too, Skip. Can't say we include it in every email, but it is written in the troop handbook and is repeated numerous times when we are collecting dues and summer camp fees. Our council has "campership" funds for summer camp and a special fund for things like Philmont and jamborees. That said, it depends largely on the local unit. If the troop or pack doesn't have the money, it can't cover the costs.

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You have 15 boys that have paid - I wouldn't suggest to the PLC that they cancel the event at this point since you have enough members committed to going. I wouldn't cancel a campout becuase only 15 lads showed up (heck - I didn't cancel a campout where only 3 of 22 lads showed up because the rest were scared away by weather reports - and we had a blast). Just as Councils and Districts offer opportunities for Units to take part in events, but doesn't make them mandatory, Units offer opportunities to Scouts to take part in events and shouldn't make them mandatory. The PLC has planned an event and is offering the opportunity. Those that wish to go will go - those that don't go have made their own choice. If a parent complains that it's unfair, let them - just don't pay any attention to it. If the CC doesn't cover your back on it, hand him the SM patch off your left sleeve and walk away - without saying a word.

 

I found nothing mean or cruel about your e-mail. If it was the CC who told you that you should not have sent it because it was mean and cruel, I'd hand him that SM patch and tell him he's got 15 boys counting on him to make sure the activity that has been planned and they paid for goes off. If it was anybody else and the CC is backing that person, then do the same. If it was anybody else who said it without involving the CC, I would hand THAT person the SM patch, and let the CC know he has a new Scoutmaster.

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So when they said the Cubmaster should pay did they really mean troop funds? I am not saying that the troop should pay for it but I would be less annoyed with the parent if they really meant the troop.

Which leads me to you called this the "old" Christmas party which I took to mean it is an annual event. If that is the case who has paid in the past? Is the one that was planned this year more expensive than the ones in the past?

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Cambridge.

 

As twocubs said. We have professionals that come to scouting with their hand out. I need free membership, free shirt, free book, free events and outings. You want me to what? Fund raise no way I am out of here or Wow Scouting isn't what I thought it was and they quit.

 

I have told many storys about cubmaster and scoutmaster supplied camperships only to see the boys mom in a new truck or with a new phone or they share Disney vacation phones. I have stopped with the 100% free trips.....You come up with 75% then I can see if I can find help with the rest.

 

Then we have the familys who have been around a while and we know need some assistance. Those boys will always be taken care of.

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Cambridge.

 

As twocubs said. We have professionals that come to scouting with their hand out. I need free membership, free shirt, free book, free events and outings. You want me to what? Fund raise no way I am out of here or Wow Scouting isn't what I thought it was and they quit.

 

I have told many storys about cubmaster and scoutmaster supplied camperships only to see the boys mom in a new truck or with a new phone or they share Disney vacation phones. I have stopped with the 100% free trips.....You come up with 75% then I can see if I can find help with the rest.

 

Then we have the familys who have been around a while and we know need some assistance. Those boys will always be taken care of.

 

 

That's a real shame that you have had that experience. It's a problem that I've simply never had. At any one time in a troop of 35-40 we might have 2 or 3 scouts who need some assistance. I've never had anyone trying it on when they don't really need help and all of them have joined in with fundraising without even needing to be asked.

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Well this mother pulled a fast one.

 

She dropped her scout off friday night and left before we could get him back in the car. Yep scout showed up with out paying for the event and expected to participate. Phone call to moms cell no answer, home no answer, emergency contact number no answer. we drove by his home on the way to the bowling alley no one there.

 

Well he watched them bowl, he and I sat in the lobby at the movie theater and finally pizza time, I had the wife bring me a couple of PB and J for him to enjoy while the boys ate pizza.

 

While she got free babysitting, Boy didn't have any fun and swore he was done with scouting. Hopefully so, I have asked the committee to remove his membership from the troop because of the actions of his mother.

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I am really surprised.. I have never heard of a troop expecting money from the SM..on the contrary our troop tries to get together a little something for each of the volunteers. Even if it is just a box of candy or some small token. Sheesh.

 

 

 

In all of my years in scouting I have received one christmas present from a scout and it was a pair of brothers who spent their own money on a hershey kiss candy cane for me at the dollar store.

 

 

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Well this mother pulled a fast one.

 

She dropped her scout off friday night and left before we could get him back in the car. Yep scout showed up with out paying for the event and expected to participate. Phone call to moms cell no answer, home no answer, emergency contact number no answer. we drove by his home on the way to the bowling alley no one there.

 

Well he watched them bowl, he and I sat in the lobby at the movie theater and finally pizza time, I had the wife bring me a couple of PB and J for him to enjoy while the boys ate pizza.

 

While she got free babysitting, Boy didn't have any fun and swore he was done with scouting. Hopefully so, I have asked the committee to remove his membership from the troop because of the actions of his mother.

 

 

IMHO, I don't consider this a success. The boy dropping scouting may be removing the one thing in his stable in his life. I'm not saying it is wrong, it is just different from what I would have done.

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