Honor Camping Societies...

[Tamegonit Arrowman 10]

As you all know, the OA is the nation HCS (Honor Camper Society), but there are many local HCS's as well...

 

My troop (260) does both the Order of the Arrow, as well as the local Tribe of Mic-O-Say...they get along well with each other, and we have active members in both...

 

They supplement each other, and our troop is beginning to find ways to fuse them into each other for troop usage...in our case, it works quite well, as we have new OA members and new MOS members every year.

 

Are there any local HCS's your troop is involed in, or do you do OA specifically?

 

Tamegonit Arrowman

 

P. S. There is a leader in our troop who was a member of the now-defuct Tribe of the Black Arrow in New Jersey. Does anyone else know about other local HCS's besides MOS?

[Adrianvs 10]

Check out this site, Tamegonit.

 

http://usscouts.org/honorsociety/honorscout.html

 

While the OA provides many opportunites for service and experience, I think that local honor societies also have their place. One of the original purposes of the Brotherhood was to preserve local camping traditions. Now, it seems that the purpose is to uproot and replace them with national ones. We are actually working on a local organization here which will become part of our camp program. Drawing on both local history and camp lore, it seems much more appropriate than ceremonialists with Lenni Lenape names wearing Sioux outfits showing up for five hours a week. Most years, the "Lodge Team" wants practice time, so the ceremonies are performed by individuals who don't even attend our camp.

 

At one time, the OA served primarily as an enhancement of the summer camp program. In time, it branched out and began having events the rest of the year. Now, it's primarily a separate entity and some councils are even removing OA from their summer camp programs entirely. Members will go through the ordeal at a separate event, etc. Very often, Arrowmen will have to choose between OA events or council/unit camping. This is especially the case in our lodge which happens to be the host for NOAC this summer. (I will not be attending, as I will be on camp staff instead. Our council has two camps.) It just seems to me that many of the original or stated goals of the national program could be better met by local programs. I am interested in how programs like Mic-O-Say and OA could co-exist. I know of one council where the MOS tribe is officially registered as an OA lodge and they retain the MOS program, organization, and ceremonials. I've spoken with the former lodge advisor about it, but I still don't understand how they can get away with it... Very interesting indeed...

[Proud Eagle 13]

In my area there was once the White Feather Society. It became the White Feather Lodge of the OA and then merged into what became the White Horse Lodge. The former White Feather Society territory now exists as two chapters of the lodge, one the White Feather chapter, the other the Deleware translation of White Feather.

 

As to how both a local program and OA could coexist, it is quite simple: do seperate programs with seperate goals that both enhance the larger Boy Scout program in the area. OA is moving away from being summer camp based, so that leaves a perfect opening for something else to take its place. The key thing would be to keep the two from duplicating the same programs and goals.

 

Now as to the MOS tribe that is reportidly an OA lodge, I would very seriously question that. I could see how you could be a OA lodge and also do the MOS program, but doing the MOS program instead of the OA program, while pretending to be OA would not be exceptable to anyone I know. From what I understand MOS ceremonies and "membership levels" do not equate well with anything in the OA. In that case any induction carried out there or recognition given would be based on lies, falsifications, and curruption of the program, and would therefore not be valid.

 

It seems to me OA either needs to fill the gaps it is leaving in the program as it changes its program over time, or other societies will rise up to fill those voids.

[captainron14 11]

Where I grew up there was and still is the Tribe of Hi-Sierra. It is primarily a "Camp" organization. That is, it has no activity outside of Summer Camp. It supports the camp program, promotes conservation, all during Camp. There are different ranks or levels: Brave, Warrior, Medicine Man, and Chief. They each have their own requirements for advancement.

From what I was told the Tribe once was THE Honor Camping Society in the Council. That was back in the late 40's early 50's. Then the OA stepped in and the rest was history.

As a Scout I made Chief the same summer I made Brotherhood.

[purcelce 11]

Hey Proud Eagle,

 

I'm a White Feather Lodge Alumnus. Was Vice Chief and got my Vigil as a youth in White Feather.

 

I even have a picture of a White Feather Society Sash. (White Feather painted on Red Sash).

 

Any hoo...On to the subject.

 

Our Council started the Tribe of Manasah back in 2001. It's a MOS knock off. Has some good points. Only thing that concerns me is this program is not youth led.

 

 

 

[Tamegonit Arrowman 10]

Wasn't Manassah a biblical name?

[Adrianvs 10]

"Now as to the MOS tribe that is reportidly an OA lodge, I would very seriously question that. I could see how you could be a OA lodge and also do the MOS program, but doing the MOS program instead of the OA program, while pretending to be OA would not be exceptable to anyone I know. From what I understand MOS ceremonies and 'membership levels' do not equate well with anything in the OA."

 

 

It is a very odd situation, indeed. I've looked over the program and ceremonial books for the lodge and it is almost entirely MOS. The only elements of OA present in their program are the youth officers, lodge flaps, and sashes. I don't recall exactly how they reconciled the MOS organization of officers with OA's. They do have most all the youth chiefs and vice-chiefs of OA, but they also keep the (slightly modified) positions of Mic-O-Say. There are both youth and adult positions that compliment each other (like chiefs and advisors), that seem to follow the levels of MOS. Whether the "official" lodge officers and advisors are also the MOS positions, I don't recall. The levels and offices have Lenni Lenape names, but seem to correlate to the MOS levels (Brave, Warrior, Medicine Man, and Chief). I realize that this is likely confusing, but I don't recall many of the details.

 

Members wear MOS log chains, but they also receive OA sashes at three of the levels. The lodge advisor I spoke to said that he had a vigil sash, but he had never been to an actual vigil ceremony, let alone gone through an ordeal.

 

As I understand it, there was a move to shut down this organization at the council level, but it was so popular with the scouts and scouters that the lodge members ended up receiving an apology letter from the council. Needless to say, this all seems very uncommon and unlikely in the BSA, but I haven't heard any disconfirming evidence so far. It seems odd that national would allow the symbols and insignia of one program to be used for another. As we all know, the BSA wouldn't stand for another group using its uniform and registering as a council or unit. Yet such a thing is happening with the OA. It doesn't bother me at all, as this program seems to be integrated into the program and serving the youth better than OA can. I just wonder how such a bottom-up (and classically FOGean) display of power could be pulled off. Is the hammer yet to fall on the Silver Tomahawk?

[Adrianvs 10]

Here is a brief history of the lodge in question. I had hesitated in revealing the lodge name and number, but it seems to be well-known enough that I wouldn't be betraying any secrets. So here you go..

 

 

HISTORY OF ORDER OF THE ARROW SILVER TOMAHAWK LODGE #80

 

By Bill Dorrell

 

Silver Tomahawk Lodge was established in 1935 and continued untill the fall of 1958. At that time Mr. Earl Ring moved from Kansas City to become the Scout Executive for the then Southeast Iowa Council and under Mr. Ring's directive the Order of the Arrow charter was dropped and The Tribe of the Silver Tomahawk, a Mic-O-Say organization, was established.

 

In 1964 Mr. Ring died and the new Scout Executive, Bill Kephart, rechartered us as Silver Tomahawk Lodge 80. At that time both the standard O.A. program and some of the Mic-O-Say traditions were used together. The single biggest change was that once again boy officers were elected and an L.E.C. structure was used.

 

Over the next few years the organization was in flux, with changes in ceremonies occuring almost weekly. To solidify things an ad hoc group got togeather and created a more unified blend of the two organizations. When they submitted their proposal, a majority of it was accepted by the Scout Executive.

 

When Mr. Kephart moved on many of the Mic-O-Say traditions he did not approve of were gradually re-instituted. With minor modifications the mixed program continued untill Southeast Iowa Council was combined with Saukee Area Council and Silver Tomahawk Lodge 80 was merged with Meheegun Lodge 136 to form Ka-Ti-Mississippi Lodge 37.

 

Almost all of the Mic-O-Say traditions were dropped and there was great discontent on the Silver Tomahawk side. After two years of heated discussion and communication with the National Order of the Arrow, the boys from the two former lodges were allowed to vote as to what they desired and both lodges voted, Meheegun Lodge by 92% and Silver Tomahawk Lodge by 96%, to return to the original two lodges.

 

Today, Silver Tomahawk Lodge 80 continues to be a unique blend of both the Order of the Arrow program and the Mic-O-Say program.

 

Bill Dorrell

Vigil/Keeper of the Wampum

Silver Tomahawk Lodge 80

[WAKWIB 107]

Hello Folks, I'm new to this group. I have enjoyed reading these forums for several months and finally decided to register. My son, Tamegonit Arrowman, started this particular thread. He was really impressed with his OA induction back in August, and is looking forward to continued involvement in the future. Since he is not in Mic-O-Say yet, and I pretty much grew up in it (but am not a member of OA yet)we have had many discussions about the merits of both organizations. However, we reach some obvious dead ends since neither of us hold dual membership yet. I think that there is a lot of good in both. Don't have much time right now to say every thing I would like on the subject, but I hope this thread continues. I think the whole subject of the history of honor camping societies, and the current trend in some councils to adopt unique programs alongside of OA to be rather fascinating. By the way, I would like to put a plug in for the Kansas City Tribe's 75th Anniversary Tribal Feast June 12. I know that there has to be some Tribesmen in other parts of the country who read these forums who might like to register and attend this event. You can register online at:

http://hoac-bsa.org/MOS_Reg_Instructions.cfm

You can send me a private message if you have any questions about the feast.

[Adrianvs 10]

Welcome, WAKWIB.

 

Your mention of your son reminds me of something. I don't want to appear too cynical about the OA or give the impression that I disapprove of it. I am a Vigil Honor member of my lodge and am proud to be part of the organization. The ceremonial symbolism in OA goes quite deep and I have spent hours helping members unravel the meaning of the ordeal symbols to understand the progression to brotherhood. It is fun to tease out the threads of symbolism implicit in the ordeal and see how they manifest in the brotherhood.

 

I also don't want to give the impression that I find MOS a perfect program. I much prefer the OA model of youth leadership (in theory) and don't care for the common MOS model that gives all the top positions to "old timers." I like the merged system that gave analagous positions to youth and adults. There are two sets of officers and ceremonial positions that co-exist. It neither forced 98% of adults into "retirement" (like OA), nor permanently enthroned anyone who had been around for a long time to the exclusion of youth (like MOS).

 

As for the faults of OA, I don't know whether it would be better to amend the program to fill these gaps or use other programs to fill them. One of the aspects of MOS that I admire is how it apparently makes everyone part of a tribe. That means that everyone belongs and everyone has a job. So often (here, at least) the OA program seems to be carried out by a few officers and conscripted camp staff. Members become mere spectators. It isn't "their" program. It's the program that a lodge sub-committee puts on with conscripted staff labor. Members aren't really distinguished from non-members until they hold a (relatively rare) office. In MOS, the position is what you do as well as who you are in the tribe. I like that.

 

Again, I critique the OA because I see much unused potential in it. I have had several years of active leadership and service in the organization and enjoyed it very much. I performed camp promotions, as well as served as a chapter chief and ceremonialist. Our council has two camps and the smaller one is basically under the jurisdiction of our chapter, so we function as a mini-lodge without all the financial responsibilies. It was all rewarding and I hope to serve many more years as an adult, trying to keep my mouth shut and hands behind my back unless I become an adviser or advice is asked of me. (I just turned 22.) I have been found useful as a ceremonial adviser this past year, but I must always remind myself of the line between giving direction and becoming a director. Admittedly having been a rather authoritarian chief during my tenure, I have found this to be the most difficult ordeal of all. I'm still having fun, however, and it's good to see the torches passed (figuratively and literally) to the younger generations, just as they were passed to us not so long ago...

 

 

Yours in WWW,

Klamachpin Elitehat(This message has been edited by Adrianvs)

[matuawarrior 10]

Welcome WAKWIB. Hello there TA, Welcome Back.

 

We are in the process of establishing our own local Honor Camper Society. The Venturers in my crew have come up with different requirements for each Honor Level. We are still looking into MOS sites and have borrowed some of their positions and duties but will localize it here.

 

Our Local OA chapter is defunct. Council will not send us any lodge patches until we are organized again. I don't blame them. Our membership is nonexsistant. Most of the OA members have moved on to other youth and sport programs due their disappointment with the OA program.

 

Since the HCS will be suited for Venturers, The members voted to make it a co-ed program. It will be interesting to see how this new HCS for Guam will pan out. Much of it is learning about promoting the Chamorro Culture here and expands on High Adventure Camping and Activities within our Area.

 

Matua

 

[captainron14 11]

Matua,

What Council is Guam a part of? What Lodge/Chapter? You HCS sounds interesting.

Will you guys have a Web page ?

[matuawarrior 10]

Hello Captainron14,

 

Guam is part of Aloha Council in Honolulu, Hawaii. I'm in the Chamorro District of the Council. Our Council has the Longest Day within national. Since the day starts with us and the Federated States of Micronesia and ends when the day ends in Hawaii.

 

Our OA Lodge is "Na Makapuni O Lawelawe 567" it was a merger of three lodges in the 1970's. It means "Islands of Service" in Hawaiian. The chapter I'm a part of is the "Acho Chapter"(Rock in Chamorro).

 

As for the Local HCS, most of youths have worked on the requirements. We plan to take concepts from both OA and MOS and bring it together and localize it to our needs here. But it's mainly for Venturers. Regarding the website, I've left that up to the members to decide. I'm pretty sure that they will have one since they just appointed a webmaster for the crew. Remind me to bring up updates on the HCS here. The plan is to do Unit Nominations this May 2004.

 

Matua

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"Guam is part of Aloha Council in Honolulu, Hawaii."

 

That really makes it difficult to pop over to the Council office to pick up some forms, doesn't it?

[matuawarrior 10]

Yes, It's really a pain in dealing with council. But I've worked hard in the last year to mend the rift.

 

We have a District Scout Office here in Guam. It's sort of like an Outpost. We help service Pacific Basin Scouting which consists of the Commonwealth of the Northern Marianas Islands, Republic of Palau, and the Federated States of Micronesia.

 

BUT, Our District acts like a Council. We work with other Scouting Associations in S.Korea, Japan, and Taiwan in providing year round camping facilities, scout exchanges, and home stays.

 

Next December 2004, I'm helping to coordinate a White Water Rafting expedition to the Philippines.

 

Sorry TA, I didn't mean to hijack your thread. Now back to our regular scheduled program.

 

Matua