Humanist is now a religion.

[skeptic 995]

Ultimately, we define ourselves. So, sometimes we may want to take a careful look in a mirror or into our past actions for reevaluation.

 

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Ultimately' date=' we define ourselves. So, sometimes we may want to take a careful look in a mirror or into our past actions for reevaluation. [/quote'] Well, but up until that second sentence, this thread has been about beliefs, not actions. All of us have the capability to act properly or to act badly, regardless of what religious, spiritual or other belief "label" we give ourselves.

[Rick_in_CA 401]

I've read numerous opinions on what a 'humanist' is but it seems that every one of them is an authority and they don't agree. So...who IS the ultimate authority for the defining characteristics of 'humanism'? What IS that set of defining characteristics?

There is no single definition of "Humanism". It means different things to different people, and it's usual meaning has changed over time. The term "humanism" is really a broad term that referrers to a whole family of philosophies and ideas, rather than a specific one.

 

So no, there is no ultimate authority for defining humanism, nor a fixed set of characteristics. Wikipedia actually has a pretty good article on humanism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism

 

As for the "is humanism a religion" question, there are humanist churches out there, such as the "Fellowship of Humanity". Plus there is the whole Religious humanism movement. Though I would expect most people that call themselves humanist would not agree that it is a religion.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

<< But national says I can not participate because I can not check the "theist" box... and that chaps my hide.>>

 

 

 

Well, you CAN check the box if you wish to do so. If you have an hour or a day when you are feeling reverent about SOMETHING in the universe, I'd make a point of checking the box at that time.

 

 

Frankly, my only concern is someone who just HAS to publicly announce "I'm AN ATHEIST" at a Scout function. If you can contain that impulse and find an instant in time when you can check the box, I'd be glad to have you.

 

If need be, I can look up a simple Scouting prayer to lead at Scout activity if I can't find someone better to do the task.

 

I tell Cub Scouts that "Duty to God" means 1) following the religious practices of your family and 2) respecting the religious traditions of other families.

 

My aim is to support the religious faith and training of Scouts and Scouters, pretty much whatever that is. Thirty years as an adult leader and that seems to work pretty well as an approach for me. If an adult felt the need to take the initiative to undermine the religious faith of a boy, we'd have a bone to pick.

 

 

 

 

[packsaddle 753]

So.....if the concept is THAT wishy-washy, why again are we having this discussion? Oh yeah,...I can use this if I go to prison, I remember now.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Yes Pack, this is really of very little significance outside the context of the specific case. We can all call ourselves whatever we want. It is only when rights and privileges are being handed out based on the labels, that it makes a difference.

[TAHAWK 1420]

There is no single definition of "Humanism". It means different things to different people, and it's usual meaning has changed over time. The term "humanism" is really a broad term that referrers to a whole family of philosophies and ideas, rather than a specific one. . . .

 

So no, there is no ultimate authority for defining humanism, nor a fixed set of characteristics.

 

And the same can be said of Islam, where each believer communicates directly with Allah and there seems to be no particular qualification for issuing religious decrees according to the author's understanding.

 

But national says I can not participate because I can not check the "theist" box... and that chaps my hide.

 

If BSA ever said that, it has also said contradictory things, and then there are the Jains and Buddhists.

 

Add the fact that Some self-identified Humanists absolutely deny that Humanism is in any way a religion: {quote]

The most critical irony in dealing with Modern Humanism is the tendency for its advocates to disagree on whether or not this worldview is religious. Those who see it as philosophy are the Secular Humanists while those who see it as religion are Religious Humanists. This dispute has been going on since the beginning of the twentieth century when the secular and religious traditions converged and brought Modern Humanism into existence.

 

American Humanist Association. http://americanhumanist.org/Humanism/What_is_Humanism

 

So who gets the last word? A judge? The ACLU? And if Humanism is a religion, can anyone teach Humanist philosophy in a public school during class? And if so, when do the reformed Druids get equal access to the kids?

 

I find more examples of Christians, for attack purposes, insisting that Humanism is a religion than I find Humanists espousing that view.

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

And the same can be said of Islam' date=' where each believer communicates directly with Allah and there seems to be no particular qualification for issuing religious decrees according to the author's understanding.[/quote']

 

Unlike the 30,000 or so sects of Christinanity. Oh wait, exactly like that.

 

So who gets the last word?

 

Why would it matter to you, tahawk?

 

[AZMike 173]

So if the precepts of humanism include (per the 2003 Humanist Manifesto):

• placing the human being as the central value and concern
  
• affirming the equality of all people and striving for truly equality of opportunity for all
  
• valuing personal and cultural diversity and condemning all forms of discrimination
  
• encouraging the development of knowledge beyond limitations accepted as "truths"
  
• affirming the freedom of ideas and beliefs
  
• rejecting all forms of violence, including economic, racial, religious, sexual and other forms of violence.
  

And these are (ahem) religious precepts, we should stop teaching these concepts in school....

[packsaddle 753]

So if the precepts of humanism include (per the 2003 Humanist Manifesto):

{list of precepts}

And these are (ahem) religious precepts, we should stop teaching these concepts in school....

 

I agree if you're talking about a science class. If it's comparative religions, then I'd say it's ok to teach ABOUT this so-called religion in a comparative religions class.

[PbW 28]

re·li·gion

rəˈlijən/

noun

• the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods."ideas about the relationship between science and religion"
  
• a particular system of faith and worship.
  
• a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.
  "consumerism is the new religion"
  

The only way humanism can be defined as a "religion" is if the last bullet point is used very loosely. It's a philosophy on how to live life, sure... but secular humanism is not by strict definition of the word a "religion".

[Natalie W 10]

I can't find much on them but a cub parent in my pack is saying she might leave and join a group called navigator that is starting at her son's school. What I did read said they were humanist and implied that it was non-religious making them different. The other parent is into camping and our pack doesn't camp. Navigator's according to her and one article I read sounds more camping and less about anything else (so lots of camping, some environmental clean up but none of the religion requirements or citizenship requirements). Actually I think all they do is camp and don't have a 'reward'/requirement structure. I did read somewhere in a 'how we picked and how you can pick the outdoor program that best fits your style' article which listed out generalizations about every outdoor group, many of which I've never heard of, that this navigator group is humanist based and possibly non-religious but maybe associated with a religion united Unitarian: it is the one the person who wrote the article joined and he was an atheist.

 

I am sticking with cubs but hoping that since my kid doesn't like camping, he will quit this year. I definitely don't think my kid will continue though into Boy Scouts and I'm glad (scouting is not really my thing but his friends convinced him to join)....he probably wouldn't have lasted this long this year (3 months) if the Pinewood Derby wasn't done early in our pack. Only reason I'm considering making him stay is because we paid 200 bucks upfront for this program year, but even that isn't keeping me caring. May be hard to get him to continue after derby. I'm tired of it anyway...going and sitting around for 2 hours every week gets old and honestly I'm starting to despise the weekly cheap crafts that are cluttering up my house (or that don't even make it out of the car so clutter up the back seat).

[Sentinel947 1205]

Natalie, with all due respect, besides sitting around every week what have you done to make the program better?

 

Using the search function I found one of your older threads. Clearly the pack your son is in has issues. Is it possible for your son and his friends to move to another pack that is more agreeable to you (and them?)

 

Otherwise , Your post sounds like drive by sniping of a volunteer who does their best to put on a program for your son. I hope your son finds an activity he enjoys more than Scouting. Perhaps it will be one you will be more supportive of.

 

I'm sorry your son hasn't gotten a good cub Scout experience. Hopefully he at least enjoyed some of it.

 

Sentinel947

[LeCastor 641]

I can't find much on them but a cub parent in my pack is saying she might leave and join a group called navigator that is starting at her son's school.

 

I am sticking with cubs but hoping that since my kid doesn't like camping, he will quit this year. I definitely don't think my kid will continue though into Boy Scouts and I'm glad (scouting is not really my thing but his friends convinced him to join)....he probably wouldn't have lasted this long this year (3 months) if the Pinewood Derby wasn't done early in our pack. Only reason I'm considering making him stay is because we paid 200 bucks upfront for this program year, but even that isn't keeping me caring. May be hard to get him to continue after derby. I'm tired of it anyway...going and sitting around for 2 hours every week gets old and honestly I'm starting to despise the weekly cheap crafts that are cluttering up my house (or that don't even make it out of the car so clutter up the back seat).

 

First, yes we have seen this migration from Cub Scouts to Navigators in my community, too. It's more about membership policy than religion, though. Personally, I think it's a bad idea to bail from Cubs because Navigators doesn't have the infrastructure, name recognition, etc that the BSA does. I guess they "voted with their feet" as I've seen on this forum.

 

Second, your last paragraph is super depressing.

[Natalie W 10]

Sentinel947,

 

 

I griped somewhere else about this and was told 'good lord, find another pack if you don't like it' Also I realize now that I probably should have kept my extra negativity to myself and stuck to original post/comment I was replying to about humanist being a religion or not and the one scouter feeling uncomfortable because not religious.

 

I often hear my teen and his friends say 'I don't need your negativity.' I should take that advice. Like many people on a forum I get myself all excited/worked up/feel whatever I'm going on about is so relevant, profound, to the point and clear that I don't even notice the negativity.

 

A lot of people in the pack are happy the way it is, btw. Although I think the number one goal of my pack is on getting bodies for maintaining the pack, which is very small.

 

Why I don't volunteer (then--2 years ago when joined): I was all gung ho as a Tiger parent but when I offered to help they said 'all positions are filled but maybe another year'. Nothing ever opened up. Other parents have wanted to help over the years too but so far only the people in charge run things. One den leader who was involved for a long time without a son (most leaders are related to each other and are grandkids/children of Troop leader) was hoping to move through ranks with her son but the Webelo 1 and 2 leaders who have no kids in pack didn't want to give up their post.

 

Why I don't try to help plan outings: When my son was Tiger I quickly learned to stop attending anything other than meetings unless I was really gung-ho for it because participation in outings is minimal. My first 4 outings as Tiger parent, which they did speak of the week before the outing as if it is a sure thing, only my son and I showed up for. Only 1 of 9 outings that year had more than 2 kids show up and that was bowling where all showed. Then the following year my son and I were the only ones that went to same bowling event. Then the following year only 1 new, non-relation of the leaders showed up to bowling. Once they talked up an outing and when we showed up they actually had not even booked the venue and of course nobody else showed up, but the venue was great and let us have a group rate. As we were leaving a grandparent leader showed up but said she only came because he grandson was doing something else at the venue next. now, 3 kids showing up is a success.

 

Why I don't volunteer now (as of few months ago): I found out recently that all but 5 scouts are registered under incorrect birthdays. Most of the leaders and kids are relatives of the Boy Scout Troop leader and register(ed) their kids young (as 5 years old) then hold them out after they do webelos and stick them into the troop as soon as they are 10.5. Many car pool in from over 20 miles away and that is why turn out is low at outings. When you suggest things they never come to fruition because your kid is usually the only one who cares to do them. Plus I think they frown on council activities or anything that might get out how our kids are mostly too young for their grouping. I didn't know this going in but once I found out it did sour me and now I am more bitter and unwilling to help than ever. Now that I know more than half the pack is registered under false birthdays I told the pack I would not be doing any leadership unless they fixed that (using advice I got here) and they said 'that's fine. we have enough leaders. we do it for the boys so just come and have fun'.