21st Century Wood Badge a Thing of the Past

[SR540Beaver 116]

Sorry for the long post.

 

Yes, Wood Badge is an adult leadership training course. That is how it’s sold and that is what it is. It is not a skills course. IOLS teaches Tenderfoot to First Class skills. It is not a course to teach you the ins and outs of being an SM or a Committee member. SM Specific and Troop Committee Challenge do that. BSA has various training courses designed to teach specific things and WB is an adult leadership training course. Nothing more, nothing less. Primarily, its purpose is to teach us as adult Scouters how to work in a cooperative fashion with other adults to achieve a successful outcome. That is in my own words, not anything from the course.

 

Now, that being said, I think of it as a chicken fried steak. You can cook the meat all by itself and it wouldn’t be half bad. Or you can dredge it in flour and seasoning and fried to a delicious, crispy, golden brown piece of heaven on Earth. WB is an adult leadership training course, but it is dredged in Troop and Patrol culture. I honestly don’t see how anyone can go thru the course and not see it. You have an SM and SPL with ASM’s and QM’s on staff. You cross over the first day of the course into a troop and patrol and are assigned a Troop Guide.

Facilities permitting, you should be camping as a patrol away from the other patrols. You should be cooking as a patrol. You will make a patrol flag, totem and yell as a patrol. You will eat, sleep, learn and travel as a patrol. Almost each day of the course, you will have a Troop meeting, a Patrol meeting and a PLC. You have a Scribe who will write and submit stories to the Gillwell Gazette. You do Start, Stop, Continue as a patrol. You participate in activities like the Who Me game as a patrol where you learn about each other and The Problem Solving Round Robin where you work as a team to solve problems. You take part in a campfire program as a patrol.

 

In the midst of all of that, you are learning diversity and inclusiveness, stages of team development, communication, planning, the teaching and leading EDGE, problem solving, decision making, coaching and mentoring, self assessment and more. And you do all of that learning as a patrol and practice it within your patrol. Your WB patrol is the lab where you put what you are learning into practice. When you leave the course, you have the skills to teach the interaction of a patrol to the boys in your unit thru modeling it in the way the adults work together.

How people can say that the patrol method is almost non-existent in WB is beyond me. It’s everywhere in WB. The whole culture of the course is built around the patrol model. Just as the outdoors is the classroom in a troop and patrol, the patrol is the classroom in the WB course.

 

That adults take the course and then come back to their unit and adult run it is not a failure of the course or its materials. It is an adult not taking the lessons to heart and being able to turn lose and let go to work with the boys on how to run it themselves. We are in an era of helicopter parents and they all fear for the safety of their children. I grew up standing in the seat of my parent’s car without a seatbelt and rode my bike without a helmet. We left in the morning and came back home when the street lights came on. For most people, those days are gone. We schedule every minute of our children’s lives with activities and want them all to be little Einsteins and excel in everything. We fret over whether their food is organic or has the proper balance of fats, proteins, fiber etc. We won’t let them go in the front yard alone. In our current day environment, is it any surprise that we have adults afraid to let the boys run the troop when we have parents happy to let their kids live at home until they are 30 and cook and clean for them? WB is a great course and it has been a real eye opener for many scouts, but I don’t know that it can reverse conventional “wisdom†and culture for everyone.

 

[desertrat77 1144]

 

 

Where did you get the information that the "original WB" did not use tickets, whatever you mean by "original"?

 

Good question..by original, I meant BP's WB plan from 1919. The closest thing I could find to a ticket was this:

-------------------------------------------

"iii. Administration:

The practical administration of his Troop or District as shown by the results of 18 months work."

-------------------------------------------

Source: http://www.neic-woodbadge.org/wbo_uk.html

 

But let's back up a bit. If I read the history correctly, the participants were presented one bead for passing parts i and ii:

---------------------------------------

"i. Theoretical:

Aims and methods of the Scout Training as defined in Aids to Scoutmastership, Scouting for Boys and Rules in such subjects as Organisation according to ages. Four lines of training: Nature lore for soul, health and sex knowledge; National need and possibilities of the Training.

A course of four studies either by correspondence in the Headquarters Gazette or by weekend attendances at Gilwell Park as desired by the candidate. This will form a winter course.

ii. Practical:

In four groups of subjects:

1. Troop ceremonies and campcraft

2. Field work and pioneering

3. Woodcraft and Scout games

4. Signcraft and pathfinding

The Training will be at Gilwell Park in four weekend courses or eight days in camp as most convenient to the candidate."

--------------------------------------

After i and ii, If they fulfilled part iii, they received a second bead and a diploma.

 

I'm keen on the words "practical administration of his troop or district." Seems somewhere along the way, WB tickets went from a logical application of learned principles to something else entirely. The way I've heard WBers describe the ticket, it can be anything from mysterious to mystical, requiring much revision and rejection of the draft, etc. The ticket workbook is 16 pages, and metric driven.

 

Ahem. Granted, "what you don't measure you can't improve" is true. Dr. Deming is with us still. But does scouting need to have the big paperwork drill to determine if a WB grad has indeed practically administrated his/her troop or district? I don't think so. The WB senior staffers can be the judge of that by observation and a conversation over a cup of coffee several months later.

 

Also, "practical administration" isn't as nearly glamorous as the lofty goals of the 16 page ticket book. I'd venture to say that practical administration is more stabilizing and longer-lasting. No need to swing for the fence on every pitch.

 

 

 

[SeattlePioneer 144]

<>

 

 

 

These are good explanations of the WEAKNESS of the Wood Badge program, in my opinion.

 

 

Developing adult leadership skills is not a proper aim of Scouting, as I apply the Boy Scout Mission.

 

 

BSA wants to market the Wood Badge program widely and advertize it as useful business training. I think that dilutes what the program ought to be --- effective training on how to lead Boy Scout troops in particular, and BSA units, district and council in general.

 

 

As I mentioned before, I took WB in 1985. Thirty years later, what I learned there most effectively was not "leadership," but the value of "working my ticket....." for life.

 

BSA is a values oriented organization. In my view, Wood Badge should be instilling the values of the BSA Mission statement in adults, not abstractions like "leadership."

[LeCastor 641]

<>

 

 

 

These are good explanations of the WEAKNESS of the Wood Badge program, in my opinion.

 

 

Developing adult leadership skills is not a proper aim of Scouting, as I apply the Boy Scout Mission.

 

 

BSA wants to market the Wood Badge program widely and advertize it as useful business training. I think that dilutes what the program ought to be --- effective training on how to lead Boy Scout troops in particular, and BSA units, district and council in general.

 

 

As I mentioned before, I took WB in 1985. Thirty years later, what I learned there most effectively was not "leadership," but the value of "working my ticket....." for life.

 

BSA is a values oriented organization. In my view, Wood Badge should be instilling the values of the BSA Mission statement in adults, not abstractions like "leadership."

 

 

Seattle, I think your post is rather contradictory. Rather than paraphrase, I will quote from Woodbadge.org:

 

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD=width: 750, bgcolor: #C7B29A] [TABLE]

[TR]

[TD=width: 725] [h=3]The Objectives of Wood Badge[/h] [/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Wood Badge has four specific objectives: As a result of attending Wood Badge, participants will be able to:

• View Scouting globally, as a family of interrelated, values-based programs that provide age-appropriate activities for youth.
  
• Recognize the contemporary leadership concepts utilized in corporate America and leading government organizations that are relevant to our values-based movement.
  
• Apply the skills they learn from their participation as a member of a successful working team.
  
• Revitalize their commitment by sharing in an overall inspirational experience that helps provide Scouting with the leadership it needs to accomplish its mission on an ongoing basis.
  

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

 

[TAHAWK 1420]

 

Good question..by original, I meant BP's WB plan from 1919. The closest thing I could find to a ticket was this:

-------------------------------------------

"iii. Administration:

The practical administration of his Troop or District as shown by the results of 18 months work."

-------------------------------------------

Source: http://www.neic-woodbadge.org/wbo_uk.html

 

But let's back up a bit. If I read the history correctly, the participants were presented one bead for passing parts i and ii:

---------------------------------------

"i. Theoretical:

Aims and methods of the Scout Training as defined in Aids to Scoutmastership, Scouting for Boys and Rules in such subjects as Organisation according to ages. Four lines of training: Nature lore for soul, health and sex knowledge; National need and possibilities of the Training.

A course of four studies either by correspondence in the Headquarters Gazette or by weekend attendances at Gilwell Park as desired by the candidate. This will form a winter course.

ii. Practical:

In four groups of subjects:

1. Troop ceremonies and campcraft

2. Field work and pioneering

3. Woodcraft and Scout games

4. Signcraft and pathfinding

The Training will be at Gilwell Park in four weekend courses or eight days in camp as most convenient to the candidate."

--------------------------------------

After i and ii, If they fulfilled part iii, they received a second bead and a diploma.

 

I'm keen on the words "practical administration of his troop or district." Seems somewhere along the way, WB tickets went from a logical application of learned principles to something else entirely. The way I've heard WBers describe the ticket, it can be anything from mysterious to mystical, requiring much revision and rejection of the draft, etc. The ticket workbook is 16 pages, and metric driven.

 

Ahem. Granted, "what you don't measure you can't improve" is true. Dr. Deming is with us still. But does scouting need to have the big paperwork drill to determine if a WB grad has indeed practically administrated his/her troop or district? I don't think so. The WB senior staffers can be the judge of that by observation and a conversation over a cup of coffee several months later.

 

Also, "practical administration" isn't as nearly glamorous as the lofty goals of the 16 page ticket book. I'd venture to say that practical administration is more stabilizing and longer-lasting. No need to swing for the fence on every pitch.

 

 

 

 

The "Gilwell Song" originated contemporaneously with the first course. The ticket originated contemporaneously with Wood Badge.

 

The ideas that the goals of the application phase should be measurable is as old at the first version of BSA Wood Badge.

 

A sixteen-page form to fill out is a trivial burden in our bureaucratic age.

 

An issue with Wood Badge is the failure of the "participants" to offer Boy Scouting to Scouts. The Ticket is a modest effort to have them actually apply what is taught.

 

Be happy you are not filling out the many pages of the test on theory that was required in BSA WB 1. Personally, I think it's a shame BSA eliminated it over forty years ago.

 

Leadership

 

While I see opportunities to greatly improve Wood Badge, Scouting - all over the world - has recognized the value of leadership training for adults and youth from BP to date.

 

Developing adult leadership skills is not a proper aim of Scouting, as I apply the Boy Scout Mission.

 

BSA wants to market the Wood Badge program widely and advertize it as useful business training. I think that dilutes what the program ought to be --- effective training on how to lead Boy Scout troops in particular, and BSA units, district and council in general.

 

​While the aims of Scouting are about youth, it seems totally appropriate for BSA to try and train adults in leadership skills so that they can lead Boy Scout troops and other Scouting units and levels in pursuit of Scouting's aims..

 

If you mean to attempt to distinguish between skills to lead youth and skills to lead adults, this forum is full of threads that illustrate the need for Scouters to lead other adults.

 

Participants are supposed to come to WB with a good understanding of Scouting aims and methods, While I think that supposition is more along the lines of a pious hope than reality, leadership training is (imperfectly) based on those aims and methods.

 

In the original WB in the UK, the learner came to WB after passing a detailed test on the aims, methods, and principles of Scouting. In WB1, BSA delayed that test until after the practical course and then totally did away with it by WB 2.

 

[desertrat77 1144]

Tawhawk,

 

While some folks are fine with the idea of sixteen page forms, I'm not. I have plenty of BSA-related red tape on my plate, and non-BSA as well. The thought of doing more? No thanks. And I'm not alone on that count.

 

Is there any written history on what BP expected as proof of "practical administration?" Sure, the song mentions a ticket, but how was it implemented in England?

[TAHAWK 1420]

It is hard enough trying to find the accurate history of BSA WB, much less the UK. Scouting has never given a high priority to history. Too much paperwork.

 

Then there is the creation of myths by ignorance or deliberate error, just to make things harder.

 

Actually, given the real meaning or "working your ticket," (forget the myth) no one has a clue what the words were originally meant to convey.

[Stosh 3452]

I was told that back in the day of the British Empire extending pretty much all round the world, when your military enlistment was up, you were done. Unfortunately that meant wherever you were, you were done. If you wish to go home in England, you had better start working to earn money to buy yourself a ticket(s) home. For some, it may mean a year or two of short range tickets that got one a bit closer each time to England. I have not been able to confirm the story with further research, but this is what we were told.

 

Stosh

[JasonG172 244]

I was told that back in the day of the British Empire extending pretty much all round the world, when your military enlistment was up, you were done. Unfortunately that meant wherever you were, you were done. If you wish to go home in England, you had better start working to earn money to buy yourself a ticket(s) home. For some, it may mean a year or two of short range tickets that got one a bit closer each time to England.

 

Stosh

 

 

I heard the same story

 

[Sentinel947 1205]

I heard what Jblake and Jason did in regards to tickets. I could go back and reread BP's biography and see what he did after his time in India.

[SR540Beaver 116]

<>

 

 

 

These are good explanations of the WEAKNESS of the Wood Badge program, in my opinion.

 

 

Developing adult leadership skills is not a proper aim of Scouting, as I apply the Boy Scout Mission.

 

 

BSA wants to market the Wood Badge program widely and advertize it as useful business training. I think that dilutes what the program ought to be --- effective training on how to lead Boy Scout troops in particular, and BSA units, district and council in general.

 

 

As I mentioned before, I took WB in 1985. Thirty years later, what I learned there most effectively was not "leadership," but the value of "working my ticket....." for life.

 

BSA is a values oriented organization. In my view, Wood Badge should be instilling the values of the BSA Mission statement in adults, not abstractions like "leadership."

 

Yes, and having an engine isn't the aim of taking a trip by automobile either.......but it sure comes in handy having one under the hood when you want to take the trip. Is having an engine a weakness in car building or taking a trip?

[TAHAWK 1420]

I was told that back in the day of the British Empire extending pretty much all round the world, when your military enlistment was up, you were done. Unfortunately that meant wherever you were, you were done. If you wish to go home in England, you had better start working to earn money to buy yourself a ticket(s) home. For some, it may mean a year or two of short range tickets that got one a bit closer each time to England. I have not been able to confirm the story with further research, but this is what we were told.

 

Stosh

 

Yes. That's the myth - and incorrect. Outside of the Happy Land, "working your ticket" to the British military was, and is, faking a disabling condition so you would be shipped home before your enlistment was up.

 

Court-martial decision deferred pending psychiatric examination. He was placed under 'open arrest', my friend Gordon Milne being responsible for him. Pragmatic Gordon after the first day: 'It's no use talking to the flowers and the birds. You're trying to "work your ticket"'.

 

The army and I were never really best of friends. I had a tendency to go AWOL whenever the whim took me, which was more often than not. On reflection, I spent a greater part of my career under arrest of some sort than I did running around and getting dirty. I was trying to get out or "work my ticket," as it was known, but the powers that were knew this and, to punish me, they kept me in.

In the end, I resorted to planting hashish in my own locker before anonymously tipping off the battery commander with a handwritten note slipped under his door. He promptly had my locker searched and, after much detective work, the soldiers eventually found the hash. I was court-martialed and given nine months in the glasshouse -- the military prison at Colchester. On the day I left the prison, I had an interview with the commanding officer of the prison. It was a mere formality.

"What are you going to do when you leave the army then, Conroy?" he asked, clearly bored with the routine.

"Cartwheels, sir," I answered, with a straight face and no hint of sarcasm.

 

Then we went to Germany and I hit the booze. It was cheap and strong in Berlin and I got into a lot of trouble there. Then they said we were going to Ireland and they asked me to sign a British citizenship form so I would be going to Ireland to kill my own people, but I wasn’t having any of that. I decided to, what they called in those days, ‘work my ticket’. I had lots of blackouts. I would just fall flat on my face in the parade ground where they could all see and so they sent me to hospital in London. . . .[That didn't work, so] the only way from there was getting into trouble, so I started getting into trouble. I was continually in and out of jail. There was nothing they could do to me, I was determined to get out of the army and I wasn’t going to Ireland to shoot my own countrymen. After eleven or twelve consecutive twenty eight day imprisonments they decided to get rid of me.

 

Kipling wrote a story about an unhappy soldier in India who, after trying other misbehavior, "worked his ticket" by running naked around the church as the officers and their wives came out after Sunday service. He was sent home as a raving loony. Months later, he wrote his mates in India, quite happy at how he had, as we might say, "worked the system."

 

I have discussed this issue with Gilwellians at Blue Springs reunion who are retired Canadian Forces types. They know what "work your ticket" means in the military and have no idea why it turns up in The Song.

 

I wrote Troop 1 HQ, was acknowledged, but heard no more.told they were checking, but heard more.

 

So I'm going to work the system if I can. ????

 

Most of the British Army's regiments served in India at one time or another. When your foreign tour was up, the UK military paid your travel expenses to return home. So the entire rationale for the Myth makes zero sense to a military historian.

 

 

[TAHAWK 1420]

I heard what Jblake and Jason did in regards to tickets. I could go back and reread BP's biography and see what he did after his time in India.

 

 

Please do. I might have missed it. He did quite a bit in the military after India, Colonel by 40; Major General by 43. Inspector general of Cavalry by 46. Then he started Boy Scouting. ^___^ Retired at 53 to lead Scouting full-time.

[Sentinel947 1205]

As far as I can tell be reskimming "Baden Powell, two lives of a Hero" by Hillcourt, every time BP changed duty stations. (India, South Africa, England, Africa, Malta, England, South Africa) he went with a unit except for his change of duty station from Africa to Malta.

 

That doesn't disprove the story of working tickets. Hillcourt may have ignored it, or perhaps BP missed out because of how is unit rotated around.

 

Doing some research I find some evidence that it was more of an enlisted mans' thing. I think Baden Powell might have had a good sense of humor. http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/work-my-ticket/

 

https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110115061021AAgodp5

 

Not the most credible of resources. "Working a ticket" was basically trying to get a discharge so one could go home. I think Baden Powell may have taken what was a symbol of laziness and turned it into something more positive, doing positive work. Idk. The meaning of English words and slang changes very quickly over short periods of time.

 

I'd need to do more research into 19th century British Army customs. Any chance Cambridge Skip might know something? lol

 

Sentinel947

[TAHAWK 1420]

As far as I can tell be reskimming "Baden Powell, two lives of a Hero" by Hillcourt, every time BP changed duty stations. (India, South Africa, England, Africa, Malta, England, South Africa) he went with a unit except for his change of duty station from Africa to Malta.

 

That doesn't disprove the story of working tickets. Hillcourt may have ignored it, or perhaps BP missed out because of how is unit rotated around.

 

Doing some research I find some evidence that it was more of an enlisted mans' thing. I think Baden Powell might have had a good sense of humor. http://www.word-detective.com/2008/02/work-my-ticket/

 

https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/questio...5061021AAgodp5

 

Not the most credible of resources. "Working a ticket" was basically trying to get a discharge so one could go home. I think Baden Powell may have taken what was a symbol of laziness and turned it into something more positive, doing positive work. Idk. The meaning of English words and slang changes very quickly over short periods of time.

 

I'd need to do more research into 19th century British Army customs. Any chance Cambridge Skip might know something? lol

 

Sentinel947

 

I cannot find BP ever using the expression. I find many examples of the meaning of working the system by faking a disability to get out of the military.

 

So I have offered some evidence to prove the negative - that the myth is just that. How about any evidence that it meant what the myth says it meant? Six hours on Google for me and not one instance outside the Happy Land of it meaning anything other than working the system.

 

So:

 

Ensconced in a trench along the Western Front, Blackadder tried every trick in the book to work his ticket home. However, hampered by his imbecile lieutenant, ...

 

When I was an RAF Regiment flight commander one of my blokes confessed to me that he was homosexual, and wanted to get out of the service (homosexual acts were a criminal offence even in civvy street then). I was naive and sympathetic and told him I'd see what could be done. I had a quiet word with the squadron WO who told me the bloke was no more homosexual than I was (I wasn't!) and he was just trying to "work his ticket".

 

 

He was, in their eyes, the perpetual malingerer, the deadbeat, the shyster who was, no doubt, trying to work his ticket.

 

He was trying to work his ticket as they wouldn't let him out any other way. He was up before the Commodore in Pompey Barracks when he ...

 

"What happened was that (the lad in question was) a chap that everyone believed was trying to work his ticket by declaring he was a Quaker some time prior to ...

 

Slightly off topic I heard about a Royal Navy sailor who tried to "work his ticket by claiming to suffer from incredible sea sickness,in a way it ...

 

I suspected that he was endeavouring to secure a discharge from the Army on medical grounds - a practice customarily referred to as "trying to work his ticket".

 

Eddy Hooks who had by now become a 'barrack room lawyer' said “There was nothing wrong with him, he was just trying to “Work his ticketâ€Â.

 

 

 

Think of Cpl Max Klinger in MASH and you have the essence of "working your ticket."

 

UK commentary on MASH

 

UK commentary on MASH

Developed from Robert Altman's 1970 movie about the day to day life of the war weary surgeons and staff of the 4077th Mobile Army Surgical Hospital during the Korean War, M*A*S*H was a dark anti-war satire that continually broke new ground on US television. Previously taboo subjects such as adultery and homosexuality were featured, and the anti-war theme that it carried was in direct contrast to America's involvement in the Vietnam War at the time. Different story telling techniques were also employed, one particular episode was shown entirely through the eyes of a wounded soldier. The cast were a collection of likeable oddballs, Hawkeye Pierce played by Alan Alda was the irreverent joker ably supported by Trapper John McIntyre played by Wayne Rogers. Head nurse Margaret 'Hotlips' Houlihan (Lorretta Swit) was having an affair with Major Frank Burns (Larry Linville), while Henry Blake, (McLean Stevenson) was the fishing obsessed CO who ignored the antics of his officers just as long as they continued to perform in the operating theatre. Walter O'Reilly (Gary Burghoff-the only survivor from the original movie's cast) was nicknamed 'Radar' because of his ability to predict incoming wounded before the helicopters carrying them appeared. Max Klinger (Jamie Farr-the only cast member to actually have served in Korea) was trying to work his ticket home by dressing in women's clothing.