TAHAWK 1420 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Since we're talking ALICE, the principle that most of the weight should go on the hips was discovered at least as far back as our Civil War by a Union Army surgeon. He could not convince the brass (who disliked magazine rifles 'cause you could lay down a rapid volume of fire) and gave up trying. Jump forward a century or so. Kelty rediscovered the lost secret in the 1960's. By 2004 the Military had caught up with Civil War load bearing principles. May not be quick but certainly are slow. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 And when they rediscover the tump line it'll even be better yet. Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
Sidney Porter 104 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 One problem that I see with military surplus when it comes to packs is that it is made for adults. If you have a webelos or even a small boy scout it is not going to fit and will make backpacking hard the weight will be on the sholders and not the hips. A pack that doesn't fit will turn them off of camping. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 The fit of the pack is not as important as the weight carried. There are no backpacks that will fit some of the smaller Webelos boys. It doesn't make any difference whether it's military or civilian. The whole idea is NOT ALL PACKS NEED TO BE COMPLETELY FILLED. Just because one has the room doesn't mean it has to be filled. When I went to Philmont I only filled my pack half full. That way when the food rations and camp gear were handed around, I had plenty of room and even then did not fill it completely. My Yucca Packs are smallish, but will handle a weekend outing easily. They have non-padded shoulder straps, no waist belt, and when I do over-pack it etc. I simply add tump line and I'm fine. I do the same for the huge duffel bags that have the non-padded shoulder straps and no waist belt, too. Learn what works and then use it and teach it. I did a 50 miler in the BWCA and each canoe had 3 people and 4 military duffels. One duffel for each person and one duffel for camp gear. At every portage the boys would hop out, grab a duffel for their back and another for the front and off down the path they would go leaving me with the canoe. About half way through the trek they started double portaging everything. It was near the end of the trek that they realized that 2-60# duffels totaled 120#. And if they didn't want to carry that weight they could carry the lighter load twice as far. What they failed to realize is that 80# of canoe might be bulky and a bit unwieldy, in the long run it was the easiest. Of course I taught them that on the last day of the trek when we were loading up to go home. My motto: "Age and treachery will win out over youth and exuberance any day". If one's new boys quit camping because their packs don't fit are basically just looking for an excuse to quit anyway. Stosh Oh, by the way, I was 4' 11" 98# when I entered high school. That is smaller than most Webelos II boys. I did just fine with my Yucca pack with no waist belt even for the week of summer camp. I did not get a framed backpack with belt until I was an adult. I like the ALICE because it is smaller than my regular backpack. Link to post Share on other sites
King Ding Dong 540 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 4' 11" 98# isn't bad. I only hope my boy gets there by HS. Almost 12 4' 3" 65#. Unfortunate if he has to miss another weekend backpacking trip this year. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 4' 11" 98# isn't bad. I only hope my boy gets there by HS. Almost 12 4' 3" 65#. Unfortunate if he has to miss another weekend backpacking trip this year. Why is that? For a weekend trek, one can get by on surprising few items. There's no reason a boy that small can't do a weekend backpacking trek. Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
JasonG172 244 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Sorry, but for the sake of the boy's and their potential for adventure, if my situation doesn't allow for it to happen, I'm going to not stand in their way. Stosh I would love to sit down and buy you a Beer, if I drank ! Link to post Share on other sites
TAHAWK 1420 Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 A leader, that is a Scout, told me one day that "The load expands to full available space - or worse." And we were talking Yucca Packs. Seems like we were missing all sorts of essential gear - that didn't exist then. We didn't know it was essential. Why is that? For a weekend trek, one can get by on surprising few items. There's no reason a boy that small can't do a weekend backpacking trek. Stosh Sometimes Life Otherwise interferes with Scouting Life. Link to post Share on other sites
GK_ 0 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 . I've researched thoroughly with my doctor, etc, and if there's a way to make a CPAP work on battery power, we can't find one. There are quite a few people running on battery power. It may take two batteries in series depending on draw, but many do it. This is from a pop up trailer forum I visit, but the discussion is on CPAP when dry camping(no hookups). Quite a few people have done it and there are links to different cords/battery packs etc. being used http://www.popupportal.com/index.php?topic=72583.0 Link to post Share on other sites
SSScout 1615 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) The ultimate in Leave No Trace : Pack out your human waste: How to Shit in the Woods by Kathleen Meyer. http://www.amazon.com/How-Shit-Woods-Edition-Environmentally/dp/1580083633 THE reference for human hygiene. NPS rules, back country policies, equipment (both professional and home made), health issues, what COULD happen..... Goes along with Everyone Poops by Taro Gomi http://www.amazon.com/Everyone-Turtleback-Library-Binding-Edition/dp/0613685725 Somebody's got to tell'em... that toilet does go somewhere...... Edited July 7, 2015 by SSScout Link to post Share on other sites
Gone 435 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 The ultimate in Leave No Trace : Pack out your human waste: How to Shit in the Woods by Kathleen Meyer. http://www.amazon.com/How-Shit-Woods-Edition-Environmentally/dp/1580083633 THE reference for human hygiene. NPS rules, back country policies, equipment (both professional and home made), health issues, what COULD happen..... Goes along with Everyone Poops by Taro Gomi http://www.amazon.com/Everyone-Turtleback-Library-Binding-Edition/dp/0613685725 Somebody's got to tell'em... that toilet does go somewhere...... Few trainers I know advocate poop, pack and carry. You're right, it goes somewhere why not disposed of properly in the back country? Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) This steers my thoughts once again to "The Ghost Map" by Steven Johnson. You can read it online - I have linked the title to a text version - or preferably in the form of a paper book. But I recommend just starting the book and see if, after reading the first chapter on 'The Night Soil Men', you can put it down. That first chapter is a masterpiece. My personal favorite passage, "It's true enough that the Victorians were grappling with heady issues like utilitarianism and class consciousness. But the finest minds of the era were also devoted to an equally pressing question: What are we going to do with all of this shit?" Edited July 7, 2015 by packsaddle Link to post Share on other sites
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