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An Open Petition...


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Happy Holidays, Everyone!

 

And since it is the season for giving, I was hoping that two of you would be willing to give a gift to the rest of the forum this holiday season. This is a petition to end the feud between Bob White and Fat Old Guy. (Note: if you want nothing to do with any of this nonsense, stop reading now).

 

Personally, I would have preferred to post this in the Issues and Politics forum. Things get heated there, but that's what it's for. However, the childish bickering and attacks between two forum members has moved beyond that forum and has contaminated the rest of the discussion on this site.

 

Let's start with some of my personal observations:

 

Bob White and Fat Old Guy are two very similar people (remarkably).

 

They are both very intelligent.

 

They both have an extraordinary knowledge of scouting and scouting resources.

 

They both are active scouters who I believe genuinely care about their scouts and their troops

 

They both have a knack for selecting a single phrase or sentence and attacking an entire post based on it.

 

They both bait each other on with snide remarks.

 

They both will often fail to directly answer to an attack, meaning their arguments take a circular pattern that will last for an excessive amount of posts.

 

They both really don't like each other.

 

They both will never admit when they're wrong.

 

They both probably disagree with at least half of what I've just said.

 

 

With all these similarities, I don't know if you two will ever get along. I don't believe it's possible. But I can't stand to see what you two can do to perfectly good topics and discussions. A scouting forum should be a safe place, just like the scouting program. This is not a safe place when you two start going at it. I have to wonder how many people read the forum, but are afraid to post because they don't want to enter the types of arguments that are now frequent. How many regular posters just start ignoring topics when they see that Bob White and Fat Old Guy have started fighting again?

 

It is ugly and uncomfortable in here sometimes. Such a change from the supportive network that the forum is suppose to be (and usually is).

 

So this is a petition. Anyone can sign this petition. Bob White and Fat Old Guy, stop your childish behavior. Argue respectfully or don't argue at all. By "respectfully" I mean to actually read the other side's post and comment on it. You don't have to agree, but try to seek a middle ground. Try to find an understanding. This isn't a discussion if the sides don't try to understand each other.

 

If you don't want to be respectful to each other, then be respectful to the forum. Ignore each other. If you want, tell us right now that you plan to ignore the other party. When they attack you or argue with you in the future, we will all know that you have chosen not to reply. You will come across as the bigger man and it will probably drive your opponent crazy. And everyone on this forum will support your efforts.

 

So there it is. This is a call for Bob White and Fat Old Guy to stop bringing a negative tone to this forum. This is a call for everyone who agrees with what I've said to tell them to end this feud.

 

And once again, Happy Holidays.

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I don't agree with all of Zahnada's words, but I do agree with the sentiment.

 

I dislike bickering and do believe it drives people away from these forums that we hold so dear.

 

I'm not pointing fingers or laying blame. I'm guilty of bickering myself on occasion and am swiftly reminded when I fall into that particular trap by other posters that I am a professional and should remain above that type of thing.

 

I sign the petition.

 

DS

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Here Here! I sign the petition. I am one of those who has hesitated to post and have also stopped reading many of the posts once Bob and FOG start going at it, which is a shame because both have posted many excellent bits of information and resources.

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They are both very intelligent.

 

I know that I am but I cannot speak for the other.

 

They both have an extraordinary knowledge of scouting and scouting resources.

 

Thank you but I'm still learning.

 

They both are active scouters who I believe genuinely care about their scouts and their troops

 

Yep.

 

They both have a knack for selecting a single phrase or sentence and attacking an entire post based on it.

 

It's an art. :-)

 

They both bait each other on with snide remarks.

 

At least I admit that I'm being snide.

 

They both will often fail to directly answer to an attack, meaning their arguments take a circular pattern that will last for an excessive amount of posts.

 

When you say "circular" are you excluding elipses?

 

They both really don't like each other.

 

However, I don't dislike him.

 

They both will never admit when they're wrong.

 

If it demonstrated that my data is in error, I will admit it and I have done just that.

 

They both probably disagree with at least half of what I've just said.

 

I'll let you score the results. I half-agreed with some of what you said and agreed with other parts.

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sign me up, I am tired of the relentless attacks directed at me personally rather than the issue.

And I am tired of being the only one he attacks and then getting criticized by some for defending myself.

 

And just to keep the rcord straight Zahnada you make some unfounded comments that I would ask you to reconsider.

 

Bob White and Fat Old Guy are two very similar people (remarkably).

I do not think you will have much luck convincing many people of that.

 

They are both very intelligent.

Smart is one thing I have never claimed to be.

 

They both have an extraordinary knowledge of scouting and scouting resources. I would be interested in what evidence yoou have to support that for the other person.

 

They both are active scouters who I believe genuinely care about their scouts and their troops

Again I would like some evidence of that. He has criticized the scouts, as well as every method an element of the program.

 

They both have a knack for selecting a single phrase or sentence and attacking an entire post based on it.

Some evidence on my part please.

 

They both will never admit when they're wrong.

NEVER? Here are just a few of my apologies. Perhaps you could find one of FOG's I could not.

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=44187#id_44375

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=14410#id_14868

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=11672#id_11682

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=7042#id_7152

 

They both probably disagree with at least half of what I've just said.

 

I would have to say more than half. Just because you post it does not make it true. One thing I have always tried to do on this forum is support what I claim as fact with evidence. You have chosen not to acord me the same courtesy.

 

FOG gained access to this this forum by stealing the identity of a another poster. Something that should disgust every one on this board. I know it disgusts me.

 

If you look the only time I confront FOG first is when he tries to imply thaat others lack integrity. (Pot calling the kettle black sort of thing). Otherwise I am on the defense.

 

I join your petition to stop the attacks I make no apologies for defending myself or scouting.

 

Bob White

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Bob White and Fat Old Guy,

 

I apologize if you feel some of my comments are inaccurate representations of you. I did preface what I said with "some of my personal observations". So, yes, this is all my own opinion and I acknowledged it as such. I do know that, "Just because you post it does not make it true" and that statement goes for everyone in this forum. Once again, those are my personal observations and you can agree with them or not, but I stand by them, except for the "never admit when they're wrong" comment. "Never" is a harsh word.

 

The purpose of those comments was an attempt to establish some common ground. Maybe give some reasons for why these two particular people are always butting heads.

 

In any case, it is a minor detail to the overall intention of the post and I would rather not sidetrack by entering into a argument about my "personal observations."

 

Once again, I'm sorry if you feel these observations are inaccurate, but "I call them as I see them."

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" I am tired of the relentless attacks directed at me personally rather than the issue."

 

LSHTIFOMC!

 

"FOG gained access to this this forum by stealing the identity of a another poster."

 

I'd still like to know whose identity I "stole" since there was no one registered with my name.

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