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Basementdweller

Venture Crews at summer camp

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Swimsuits communicate the message' date=' "I'm here for swimming." Nothing more.[/quote'] Ummm. I was at my local Waterpark yesterday and there were many swimsuits that communicated a very different message than I am here to swim. One recent trend is the "scrunch butt" it looks fantastic but does not communicate swimming at all. Google it, just not at work. :)

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Church camps all over the U.S. run co-ed camps. It's definitely possible to make it work.

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The women's one piece "scuba style" swimsuits are very much in style. They have a very "athletic" look and are relatively modest.

 

I have also seen boys wearing surfer styled body suits, which are also very athletic looking, rather than just swim trunks.

 

I don't know if it is for modesty or UV protection. Works either way for me.

 

 

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Swimsuits communicate the message' date=' "I'm here for swimming." Nothing more.[/quote'] They also communicate "check out my new tattoos", but I digress. The problem is boys don't understand what the messages convey. As an advisor, it is my responsibility to help boys from other troops get the message! Sometimes (very rare occasions) this involves telling the young women to dress modestly. Usually, this involves taking long afternoon naps so that I am where my youth need me to be in the evenings. Then I am able to take those after lights-out strolls, introduce myself, and suggest these very friendly boys report back to their SM.
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Camps are going to accept Venture Crews to keep paying the bills. My council camp has a dress code that all campers are expected to abide by. Dressing inappropriately is not proper for either sex.

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If boys are that horned up after being away from girls for a week, they have some serious issues. The girls in the crew should have adhered to the camp dress code, the leaders who made those comments need to get their heads out of their backsides. If it can be done on a scale as big as the Jamboree, it can be done locally.

 

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Can't agree with you on this one Basement. Part of being a good citizen, good values, and ethical behavior is learning how to effectively function in a diverse population. Just as our population is made up of multiple races, people of varied ancestry, and many faiths, our population is made up of two genders.

 

Frankly I can't imagine a better setting for scouts to learn how to interact with members of the opposite gender then under supervision at scout camp. Frankly, it's time we integrate all the US Scouting Programs; we're clinging to a remnant of a past long gone.

 

As far as dress code, BSA and our camps already have that in place.

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Frankly I can't imagine a better setting for scouts to learn how to interact with members of the opposite gender then under supervision at scout camp.

Except maybe church camp or youth group or finishing school?

I'm sorry, leading up to Feb 14th, my youth need to learn about winter survival.

...we're clinging to a remnant of a past long gone. ...

For being long gone, we got millions of boys getting a kick out of it. We don't have anywhere near that many girls in the wings willing to "mix it up."

... As far as dress code' date=' BSA and our camps already have that in place....[/quote']

You got that in writing?

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Except maybe church camp or youth group or finishing school?

I'm sorry, leading up to Feb 14th, my youth need to learn about winter survival.

 

For being long gone, we got millions of boys getting a kick out of it. We don't have anywhere near that many girls in the wings willing to "mix it up."

 

You got that in writing?

 

I absolutely agree that most church camps, most youth groups, and most finishing schools are also ideal. I say most because there are some of each that teach things that will not help our youth become productive members of today's society.

 

My reference to a past long gone is talking about an age where male and female don't mix. Our separate programing speaks to an age where the genders weren't seen as equal, and women were viewed as unclean, a force of corruption. Although this nation is very backwards in many social respects, we're well beyond such ignorance.

 

Scouting's dress code comes from national; the well known parts of it are the Field and Activity uniforms. If you take a closer loom you'll find swim attire, dress attire, ect are all defined by national. When at a BSA event or BSA camp, national's policies apply, and trump any Charter Org rules on dress code.

 

I've been to many BSA summer camp programs, at many camps, and have never encountered one that didn't go out of its way to state that the dress code will follow BSA guidelines.

 

If I recall correctly all the rules/guidelines for attire are found under "National Guidelines" and the various national guidelines for camp/camp program operation.

 

 

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... Our separate programing speaks to an age where the genders weren't seen as equal' date=' and women were viewed as unclean, a force of corruption. Although this nation is very backwards in many social respects, we're well beyond such ignorance. ... [/quote']

 

So, have you talked to a lot of committee members?

Listened to popular music?

Glimpsed the Grammy awards?

 

I admire the female (youth and adult) leaders in the BSA, but it seems like for every one of me, there's at least six feel resent their presence. Even in our troop, where the SM and I constantly assure women that we want them camping with us, and the boys actually love their presence (at the desired 300' distance, of course ;) ), it takes a lot of courage to be "that mom." Maybe after five years, a mom will fess up that they felt they had no chance winning some of the other, more senior, ASM's approval.

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To answer your questions:

 

As a UC, OA Adviser, former SM, and CC, I've talked with lots of committee members ... some of the conversations I even enjoyed ... most not

 

I avoid pop music like a cat avoids water.

 

I don't watch the Grammy awards, I frankly don't care about others opinions on music.

 

Although I'm frequently accused of being "old school", the past is the past, and the future has no room for gender separation in organizations, schools, the workplace, or any activity.

 

As much as I love BSA, it has lots of "Archie Bunker" types, and think it's still decades ago. There are some things I'd love to bring pack from the past, but simply put the past is called the past for a reason. We can either fix our gaze on the horizon, and move into the future, or become extinct.

 

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Although I'm frequently accused of being "old school"' date=' the past is the past, and the future has no room for gender separation in organizations, schools, the workplace, or any activity.[/quote']

 

So I'd like to explore that a little bit. This suggests you would advocate for co-ed sports teams in schools? That is one basketball team, one volleyball team, one track team, one baseball team, all co-ed? You would advocate for shutting down or integrating all-female secondary and post-secondary schools? Regardless of their track record for educating women they would be required to admit on-campus resident male students?

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So I'd like to explore that a little bit. This suggests you would advocate for co-ed sports teams in schools? That is one basketball team, one volleyball team, one track team, one baseball team, all co-ed? You would advocate for shutting down or integrating all-female secondary and post-secondary schools? Regardless of their track record for educating women they would be required to admit on-campus resident male students?

 

One of my character flaws is honesty. Despite knowing it's the answer you're looking for, and it will fuel the fire, yes.

 

Yes, I do advocate co-ed sports, although not in the school. At the risk of derailing this conversation, I don't think sports have a place in schools, at least not beyond a fun non-organized activity engaged in during free time. I firmly believe Sports leagues belong in the community, not the school, but that another topic.To bring sports back in line with the topic, the real world, in the work place, men and women work, and compete, side by side.

 

I do advocate integrating all single gender secondary and post secondary schools, unless they exist for faith based reasons, in which case they should be privately funded. As far as some of these schools having good track records, fantastic, allow everyone to benefit. In the real world there will be men, and women, and being comfortable working together, and associating, is essential to being a well adjusted citizen. Schools team more then academics, they are the key place where young people learn to interact socially, and the sooner we make this an aspect of curriculum the better.

 

Separating the genders during adolescence causes social dysfunction. This dysfunction may manifest in anything from being uncomfortable with the opposite gender, to aggressive acts against the opposite gender.

 

Our future is a place where lines of separation between racial groups, genders, nations, and religions will soften, become more flexible, and people will freely associate, that formerly were kept apart by barriers of language, nation, belief system, social convention, race, and gender.

 

We must ask ourselves, are we preparing youth for the future, or holding them in the past?

 

 

 

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