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OA and the aboriginal cultures

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1 hour ago, Oldscout448 said:

Does this mean I need to memorize Beowulf? 

Or learn old English? 

Nope. We take from the Saga of Ragnar. You can't offend the North Men.

Can't do anything British because we will offend someone eventually.

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16 minutes ago, HelpfulTracks said:

Nope, but apparently we are offending all of the Americans.

And since we already "appropriated" Scouting from the Brits I can't imagine they would be offended if we did so with the Knights of the Round Table.

But hey......... who knows.

Can we appropriate a myth? Won't someone get mythically offended? ;)

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2 hours ago, Col. Flagg said:

Can we appropriate a myth? Won't someone get mythically offended? ;)

Well, based on the current train of thought that the aggrieved party in appropriation are those who were subjected to colonization/subjugation, I think we are in the clear.

All of this is their fault, right?

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1 hour ago, HelpfulTracks said:

Well, based on the current train of thought that the aggrieved party in appropriation are those who were subjected to colonization/subjugation, I think we are in the clear.

All of this is their fault, right?

In today's environment, I would never assume that. Someone, somewhere will get offended and make a stink and BSA will back down. That seems to be the process.

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Just now, Col. Flagg said:

In today's environment, I would never assume that. Someone, somewhere will get offended and make a stink and BSA will back down. That seems to be the process.

Oh, I agree, which is why I didn't say they wouldn't be offended. But using the cultural appropriation guidebook them being offended is of no consequence.

Just in case anyone isn't paying attention to the whole thread. This is all sarcasm.

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Posted (edited)

So now I hear rumblings that each lodge will need to get approval from their local tribe ( or descendants thereof )  in order to wear any regalia in public ceremonies.

This will be somewhat problematic for us since  as far as I have been able to discover the last historical mention of our local group was  circa 1760.

Living on the east coast does have its drawbacks

Edited by Oldscout448

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3 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

So now I hear rumblings that each lodge will need to get approval from their local tribe ( or descendants thereof )  in order to wear any regalia in public ceremonies.

This will be somewhat problematic for us since  as far as I have been able to discover the last historical mention of our local group was  circa 1760.

Living on the east coast does have its drawbacks

I've never seen an arrowman wearing regalia corresponding to my local tribes. Here, it's mostly a mishmash of plains and east coast tribes (something my archaeologist COR finds quite amusing). Is this a requirement in other lodges?

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38 minutes ago, Saltface said:

I've never seen an arrowman wearing regalia corresponding to my local tribes. Here, it's mostly a mishmash of plains and east coast tribes (something my archaeologist COR finds quite amusing). Is this a requirement in other lodges?

For some lodges, yes.  A few years back, National made a bog push top do away with "Hollywood Indian" image. Wanted lodges to go local.

Some lodges had challenges, depending upon the time frame.  SE Louisiana Houma didn't wear much until post contact, and with Jesuit influence.

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17 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

So now I hear rumblings that each lodge will need to get approval from their local tribe ( or descendants thereof )  in order to wear any regalia in public ceremonies.

What’s the source of the rumblings?

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Don't know where @Oldscout448 is hearing his rumblings, but I am hearing mine from several Facebook groups for Arrowmen. ( or shall I say Arrowfolk?) One person commented on how their SE has banned the OA from doing Arrow of Light and Cross Over ceremonies  in their council. That led to a discussion about how the OA is going to change policies soon regarding regalia. I'm thinking at NOAC. Another FB group dedicated to ceremonies and has folks on the national OA committee discussed how to get symbolism without wearing regalia. They mentioned wearing color specific shirts for the ceremonies.

Then I heard something from a section level AIA officer. I asked him about the above, and he told me there is a discussion at National on the topic, and it appears the OA will eb moving away from regalia.

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2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Don't know where @Oldscout448 is hearing his rumblings, but I am hearing mine from several Facebook groups for Arrowmen. ( or shall I say Arrowfolk?) One person commented on how their SE has banned the OA from doing Arrow of Light and Cross Over ceremonies  in their council. That led to a discussion about how the OA is going to change policies soon regarding regalia. I'm thinking at NOAC. Another FB group dedicated to ceremonies and has folks on the national OA committee discussed how to get symbolism without wearing regalia. They mentioned wearing color specific shirts for the ceremonies.

Then I heard something from a section level AIA officer. I asked him about the above, and he told me there is a discussion at National on the topic, and it appears the OA will eb moving away from regalia.

This is a mistake.  Never yield to political rage mobs.  They are never satisfied until you are destroyed.

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22 hours ago, Oldscout448 said:

So now I hear rumblings that each lodge will need to get approval from their local tribe ( or descendants thereof )  in order to wear any regalia in public ceremonies.

This will be somewhat problematic for us since  as far as I have been able to discover the last historical mention of our local group was  circa 1760.

Living on the east coast does have its drawbacks

That will be entertaining...trying to find the tribal descendants.  That is assuming a lodge is in fact using regalia and symbolism from the local tribe from the area your lodge may be in.  For example if one is in Western NC and the lodge is using Cheyenne type regalia but that area was originally Cherokee, who (whom??) from which NA group would be able to approve usage.  Is there a form, would it be an e-mail, do you go to their local gatherings?

Also what era as the regalia changed over the years as the NA groups came in contact with Europeans.

 

Image result for native american tribes territory map

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58 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

 

That will be entertaining...trying to find the tribal descendants.  That is assuming a lodge is in fact using regalia and symbolism from the local tribe from the area your lodge may be in.  For example if one is in Western NC and the lodge is using Cheyenne type regalia but that area was originally Cherokee, who (whom??) from which NA group would be able to approve usage.  Is there a form, would it be an e-mail, do you go to their local gatherings?

Also what era as the regalia changed over the years as the NA groups came in contact with Europeans.

 

Image result for native american tribes territory map

I'd use this map since it has a lot more detail. Over 500 indigenous nations in North America at the time.

http://www.tribalnationsmaps.com/uploads/1/0/4/5/10451178/s366865341169104376_p38_i7_w2560.jpeg

 

One interesting thing I am remembering from a NOAC a long long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, one lodge straddled a state line. On  one side of the state line, one tribe was dominant, on the other side of the state line, another. Both tribes had nearly identical regalia, only certain colors and patterns differentiated the two. While the chapters would be specific in their regalia, when they competed at NOAC, the team was a lodge team, and combined the the regalia of the two nations. Only someone extremely knowledgable could tell the difference.

 

2 hours ago, 69RoadRunner said:

This is a mistake.  Never yield to political rage mobs.  They are never satisfied until you are destroyed.

I agree. Especially with the history of the OA. I've commented on other threads how the OA has helped Native Americans since its founding in 1915. A lot of people do not know or comprehend the good the OA has done.

It reminds me of BLAZIN' SADDLES. It was a movie to fight racism and racial stereotypes. Today it is viewed as racist.

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54 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

It reminds me of BLAZIN' SADDLES. It was a movie to fight racism and racial stereotypes. Today it is viewed as racist.

When my son was in HS he and some friends were watching Blazing Saddles one night, we had a long discussion on timeframe it was made, (1974) and what is was actually trying to convey.  To your point is what highlighting the absurdity of many racial stereotypes and at it's core it is a satire.  Also pokes a great deal of fun at Hollywood.

Great movie.

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