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What makes an event a District/Council event?

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... I just found out that it's another district holding the event opposite ours and it is the district where the new chair is from

 

hmmmm...I wonder if that has anything to do with it

 

Oh, let's see. Yep.

 

But, you saw this coming. A year ago they said they wouldn't help you. They specifically said it was to funnel kids toward their (inferior, according to your estimation) event. You had a year to explain to parents that council is approving your neighboring district's event instead of yours and everyone will have to decide if they want to attend that event or do something other than shooting sports.

 

You could have asked your charter organization reps to gather and meet with the SE and council president about the importance of having two similar events in the same month, how it is a hardship for some in the community to travel across council to get to an event in another district, and how it is insulting to your way of thinking that if multiple units in a district come together to hold an event that that event would be anything other than a district event. That would be playing politics with no clear end game besides pointing out a problem and maybe getting yourself on a committee that you would rather not be part of. :(

 

So scramble and get the boys signed up for this activity (informing them of the location change), or do your own activity with non-BSA RSO, or plan a different activity, apologizing to parents that you were overly optimistic that council would reverse its opinion.

 

This is something I would never bother discussing with a DE. Rather, I would bring this up with my district commissioner and other volunteers.

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Blanc,

 

It's not "units" but "packs" 2 or more packs get together.

 

Frank,

 

page 9 of this document states. And let's remember, districts are part of the council, so if district committees are involved, that's council support.

 

"Family camp is a council-organized overnight or longer event for Cub Scouts (including Webelos Scouts) and their families that involves more than one pack where the council provides the staffing and program. These events are often referred to as parent/pal, mom and me, or adventure weekends. Family camps for Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, Venturers, or Sea Scouts may also be accredited upon application of the council."

 

Here's the link.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/ou...df/430-056.pdf

OK - First, a Pack IS a Scouting "unit".

 

Second - the above link is to the National Camp Standards. THAT could very well be the problem here.

 

To consider this a Council/District Family Camp Overnight, these standards would have to be met/followed.

 

Have they in past years? Are they this year?

 

Is there at LEAST anyone with National Camping School certification in charge of this event? In any way what so ever?

 

So - deal with the fact that there will be no shooting sports at this year's event. Come up with some alternate activities. Move on, and make sure everyone has fun.

 

Do a better job of organizing this for next year so that it IS a Council/District event.

Contact your Council Programing Director, & your District/Council Commissioner. Have your COR reach out to your Council's SE.

 

 

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Well, after reading all this, it seems we have missed a point. Is the other Districts event paying the Council? I scheduled an event, then had to find a new sponsor because my Council wanted at least 15% of the monies. This event was scheduled with BSA (including Cubs), GSA, and LFL as participants.

 

Usually, to get District/Council to sign off, they have to be in on the Cash side. They do not have to provide anything for it, you provide all the volunteers, but they need the cash.

 

My $0.02

 

p.s. This is also one of the reasons I am leaving Scouting after being an adult off and on since 1979.

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Perhaps they wanted the 15% because you included a non-BSA organization in the event?

 

My council has never demanded a cut of the proceeds. Usually because we were not running for-profit events, and tended to end up barely in the black.

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Usually, to get District/Council to sign off, they have to be in on the Cash side. They do not have to provide anything for it, you provide all the volunteers, but they need the cash.

Yep. Our council asks for 18% on every event (Klondike, camporee, cub camp, webelos overnighter, cubmobile, etc.)

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What am I missing here?

 

A unit event is planned and run under the authority of one or more units..

 

A district event is planned and run under the authority of a district - specifically the District Program Committee. (District Camporee; District Klondike). The district decides who is in charge of what and what the event program is.

 

A Council Event is planned and run by a council. It may delegate tasks to whoever it elects.

 

 

Can you not find a district Program Chair who will put this on that district's calendar?

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Perhaps they wanted the 15% because you included a non-BSA organization in the event?

 

My council has never demanded a cut of the proceeds. Usually because we were not running for-profit events, and tended to end up barely in the black.

 

Scoutnut: Our Council gets at least %15 for ALL events (Klondike, Camporees, WeBELOS events, ...) It had nothing to do with inviting GSA or LFL. We just lost a great fundraising opportunity because the District Rep (DE/CFO/...) wanted at least $1000 donations where the people were willing to donate hundreds but not thousands.

 

The last "District Dinner" that I executed, the District not only wanted their 15% but wanted the adults to pay for the awards that the District (not the District Dinner Committee) decided to give out. Would not have been so bad if they just took the money from the profits but they made sure to tell everyone that the profits were less because they had not deducted the awards before calculating (we did not have the amounts either).

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What am I missing here?

 

A unit event is planned and run under the authority of one or more units..

 

A district event is planned and run under the authority of a district - specifically the District Program Committee. (District Camporee; District Klondike). The district decides who is in charge of what and what the event program is.

 

A Council Event is planned and run by a council. It may delegate tasks to whoever it elects.

 

 

Can you not find a district Program Chair who will put this on that district's calendar?

 

 

Tahawk: First you must have a Program Chair. We have problems keeping them as District/Council require a profit from anything that is planned. The Units usually schedule/plan ALL District events, and supply the help. If you want to use Council facilities, that cost extra too and can not be included in the profit as it is a cost.

 

I can't even remember the last calendar planning meeting. I think it was two or three years ago.

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So you don't have district events because the voluinteers have not staffed a functioning district. I can see that happening given that the nearest district to my west (after mandated reorganization by council) has a total of one trainer, no roundtable commissioners (attendance down 75%), and a non-functioning Program Chair with no committee behind him. Throw all the (highly performing) leadership under the bus and the results might not be optimal. Fund-raising goals were exceeded.

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I am in the same boat as ghermanno – our district does not have a program/activities chair or program/activities committee. My district hasn’t run its own Camporee/Klondike in 3 or 4 years – they are done jointly with other Districts.

When we took this event over 3 years ago we asked our respective District Committees for help in running this but got no response. So we went put it on without them.

 

Tahawk – There are no written guidelines on what makes an event a district/council event. It’s a judgment call on whoever is making the decision.

I contacted a Scouter friend in a council just south of me. In his council if a pack wants to shoot BB Guns they can. They require that the range be approved and someone from their shooting sports committee run the range. They consider this a council run event.

 

What you’re missing is that for that last 6 years we have had shooting sports at our event. Council has used our event as an example of activities it holds in its corporate fundraiser literature.

This year our council has a new shooting sports chair that is helping to run a competing event opposite ours and is now saying our event is not a district event.

 

Our event organizing committee has decided to find activities to replace shooting sports.

We feel that one of the reasons our event has been so successful is that council has had minimal involvement.

 

I thought councils existed to help units put on a good program and not stand in their way.

 

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... What you’re missing is that for that last 6 years we have had shooting sports at our event. Council has used our event as an example of activities it holds in its corporate fundraiser literature.

This year our council has a new shooting sports chair that is helping to run a competing event opposite ours and is now saying our event is not a district event.

 

Our event organizing committee has decided to find activities to replace shooting sports.

We feel that one of the reasons our event has been so successful is that council has had minimal involvement.

 

I thought councils existed to help units put on a good program and not stand in their way.

 

Oh, we get this on so many levels. :( But, here's what you are missing ...

  • If a program succeeds at a district level, a council will do its level best to make sure it perpetuates council-wide. The arms of a council are its districts. A district without a strong, permanent, volunteer leadership structure is considered "broken". When it comes time to do push-ups, it won't rely on that broken arm.
  • The council "helps" by encouraging volunteers to assemble around strong district leadership who include in their plans solid arrangements to pay for staff time spent promoting events (instead of, say, knocking on some millionaire's door asking for donations or some charter org's door asking for space and time to start a new unit).
  • You have an organizing committee that's floating one event for cubs. How about three events per year for cubs, boy scouts, and venturers in your district? If what you are doing is head-and-shoulders above what the neighboring district is doing, promote it at the roundtables of all of your neighboring districts.

Now there may be reasons why your units want to steer clear of council (personality conflicts, byzantine regulations, added cost), but in doing so you make yourself out to be something less than a district. The only way to break this cycle is to get a group of scouters willing to manage conflicts, form a leadership structure that can work through regulations, and learn how to negotiate cost with -- or at least extract more benefits from -- council.

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Tahawk – There are no written guidelines on what makes an event a district/council event. It’s a judgment call on whoever is making the decision.

 

I can find no written quidelines on what makes a post one by CNY Scouter. (^___^)

 

Maybe we could start here:

Process:

• Work with your District Executive to develop the event budget

• Budgets are due to council no later than 30 days prior to your event

• Remember that NO budget with a negative balance will be accepted.

• Have your District Executive submit the budget for approval

• Submit all receipts, bills, and invoices no later than 30 days after the event for payment.

• Fill in the actual numbers on the original budget form and file for reference.

. . .

District Event Financial Policies

A. Whenever a council-approved district event will incur expenses and or have income, an approved budget must be on file with the council accounting office. The budget should be prepared by the event chairperson and committee with the assistance of the professional staff adviser. The budget is then routed through the Field Director and recorded so that expenses may be paid by the council in accordance with correct accounting practices.

B. All income at an event must be properly receipted. Checks should be made payable to the Grand Canyon Council. Expenses are not to be reimbursed from cash collected at the event. All income is to be submitted to the council in accordance with correct accounting practices.

C. The intent of the budget is to fairly reflect anticipated costs versus anticipated expenses, and to balance. These expenses should include a standard 15% for support of the council budget in the form of processing, copying, telephone, and other overhead associated with costs incurred with the event.

D. All purchases of material and/or rental of facilities are to be supported by a purchase order; forms are available from field staff, program department or accounting department. The purchase order must clearly note the event and approximate expense account category.

E. Refunds should be made only in accordance with stated refund policy. All refunds should be disbursed in the form of a council check.

I understand the policies and procedures as explained in this letter of understanding, and by signing, I agree to conduct the district event that I chair under these guidelines.

Signature__________________________________________________________

 

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Tahawk - please post the document you are quoting from. I have organized events at both the Districxt and council level in the past and have never seen this form nor asked to sign anything.

 

I actually do head up other events for Cubs in my District and help out at the District Pinewood Derby every year.

...and these are organized the same way as our event - a few people from a couple units get together and hold the events with no District involvment.

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I don't imgine that there is a standardized procedure everyone follows. The point is merely that district events are not run independently by one or several units. That does not make unit events less. It just makes them unit events whatever they are called.

 

If, as noted above, the distruict structure is morbund, the vacuum often gets filled by the willing. Still not district events without district (or council) sanction. They can be called "Distirct" - or "Pickle." And it won't matter - until it does. Some bureaucrat comes along and makes trouble, or there is a legal problem and you are left swinging in the breeze.

 

When I wanted to do an Advancced Outdoor Skills course, I went to the Council Training Committee and got the volunteers at that meeting to put it on the official Council calendar. Voila! And no; we did not do an officlal budget. But it was sanctioned by Council. When we signed up for camp facilities, we benefited from free publicity and from the policy that council and district training events get free use of camp facilities. The camp staff cooperated 100%.

 

I did a Google search on activity or program or event district and got 1000's of hits,

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=Work+with+your+District+Executive+to+develop+the+event+budget&rlz=1C1GGGE___US527US527&oq=Work+with+your+District+Executive+to+develop+the+event+budget&aqs=chrome..69i57.27323j0j9&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

 

http://www.grandcanyonbsa.org/volunteers/district-committee-resources/council-district-event-budget-policies/48747

 

http://rh.nsbsa.org/Portals/30/RH%20Activity-Planning-Manual-.pdf

 

 

 

 

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