Membership: That Was The Year That Was.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

FScouter: Wow. Juvenile prison, huh? It does raise some issues. Not that Scouting cannot benefit those youths, but it would seem to be something more suited for Learning for Life, doesn't it? But that doesn't give anyone membership or unit numbers...

 

I think the "drive for numbers" can be a good thing, if it matches the right program with the right kids. This wouldn't seem to be an example of that, though.

[buffalo2 14]

Eammon: Sounds like you're on a good course to improve an otherwise ugly situation. And certainly appreciate the position of supporting the program overall - even when the immediate situation isn't to one's liking. This is a concept that we all face from time to time and some important ideas are surfacing.

I fervently hope that we can see this discussion continue instead of watching it spiral downwards into off-topic childish behavior and background noise.

 

[evmori 11]

Bob,

You may be correct but in the G2SS everything is listed under "General guidelines are as follows:"

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Twocubdad 665]

I hear what Dave is saying loud and clear. I certainly wouldn't want you to do or say anything that would put the Scouting program in a bad light -- and I know you wouldn't. Unfortunately, your professional staff has done that for you.

 

But this CO has been hoodwinked. Does anyone think the CO has been given a clear understanding of what their responsibilies are? Do they really understand that they are responsible for recruiting leadership? Or have they been told that the DE will run things until a parent or teacher happens to come along.

 

Eamonn, since you have a pre-existing relationship with the CO, I think it highly appropriate for you to provide them with a clear understand of their responsibilities. If they decide to move forward with the program on that basis, great. If the truth throws a wrench in the works, so be it.

 

We had a very similar situation here a couple years back. Without going into all the gory details, the DE tried to play both the CO and pack leaders against the middle, trying to get them to start a new troop at the CO. When the CO and pack leaders finally compared notes, the whole sorry deal blew up. As a result, the new troop never came about. The pack leaders actively distrust the professional staff. The CO has a with a sour taste for Scouting and a potential troop that may never come to be. Some may want to lay the blame for that on the pack leaders who went to the CO blew the whistle on the deal, but I place it squarely on the shoulders of those whe cooked up.

 

I asked before but never got an answer, where are the checks and balances in this? Is there no one who follows up on this process to see that there is more than paperwork behind a new unit? If I show up at the council office with a charter, the minimal number of applications and a check for the rigistration fees, doesn't anyone ask questions?

[Fat Old Guy 11]

Bob White, you are always proclaiming that we should accept what is written in BSA documents without interpretaion or personal spin. However, you seem to exclude G2SS.

 

First you tell us to ignore the section about being familiar with the Scouts med forms.

 

Now, you're reading into things on transportation just to make them fit your needs.

 

To borrow from Gomer Pyle, "Fer shame!"

 

Let's break this down.

 

Is a Troop meeting a Scout activity? Ja, es ist ein Scout activity.

 

Is a Troop meeting an area, regional or national activty. Nein, es is nicht ein area, regional or national activy.

 

Ist das nicht ein Schnitzelbank? Ooops, wrong song.

 

So we have a Scout activity that is not area, regional or national in nature. May a Scout drive to an activty that is not an area, regional or national activity? Nope. Hence, a Scout may not drive to a Troop meeting.

 

BTW, as stupid as this policy is, I'd argue this point with anyone.

 

 

[Bob White 20]

First, this really isn't the point of eamonn's thread, so before you lead it further astray I will move it to a new thread.

 

Second, to this point you have displayed your willingness to argue any point, on anything, with anybody, regardless of your total ignorance of the topic. So why should this be any different.

 

Eamonn I apologize for picking up on his fable about driving and I will move this to another thread, hopefully he will follow and leave this one alone.

 

Bob

 

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"First, this really isn't the point of eamonn's thread,"

 

So? Threads, like conversations, meander. When you're talking to a friend, assuming that you have friends, about football and the conversation turns to instant replay technology which leads to the new camcorder that he bought, do you you say, "Hey, we'll talk about that later. We're talking football now." (Bob White and football?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, why should it concern you how a thread meanders? You've been invited to not participate in threads but still felt it necessary to stick your beak into the discussion.

 

 

[dsteele 20]

First, let me address the juvenille detention facility. Granted, 15 Crews are a stretch. I would also like to see more than 3-4 1/2 hour hands on sessions put on per year for the young men. However, what they are currently receiving is more Scouting than they have available to them through their situation. The membership fee must be paid and the members counted is program is being delivered -- whether they participate in a meeting a month, or daily, or hourly.

 

Regardless of what anyone says, youth with valid driver's licenses are legally allowed to drive themselves to regular meetings of the troop.

 

NJ -- If the juvenilles in question are getting program from Venturing, it would be inappropriate to register them as Learning for Life -- which uses a classroom based curricula and is focused, at the older levels, on career preparation.

 

Twocubdad -- there are checks and balances on membership. Policies call for registration cards to be mailed by the registrar to the unit leader of record. Welcome to Scouting phone calls from a professional staff member, with no responsibilities for membership, to the unit leader. If the reaction is "I don't know what you're talking about," we have a problem.

 

In my last council, the Finance Director was charged with making the calls. His job responsibilites called for no direct responsibility for membership. In some councils, that's tougher to do. In the council I currently serve, there are only DE's, myself, and the Scout Executive. Even so, I talk to every new unit and the DE's know it.

 

Now if you can't trust me, who can you trust

 

DS

[Twocubdad 665]

Thanks for the info, Dave. I can see how the phone calls would catch an out-and-out fictious unit, but in Eamonn situation or the one I'm familiar with, the CO would just say thanks for the call, with no clue that there was much more than they had been led to believe.

 

And I do trust you, Dave, implicitly -- at least until you give me a reason not to. I'd say Eamonn's FD (The Twit, I believe he calls him) has shown that he does not merit that same trust.

[Campfire Fairy 10]

I tried really hard to restrain myself from getting involved in this, I really did, and I might regret it later, but I just have to say this...

 

Bob White and FOG bicker like schoolchildren.

 

I would like to say that you are both very useful resources for information regarding the wide spectrum of boy scout knowledge, and I have no doubt that you both harbor an incredible passion for scouting, but you also seem to harbor an incredible passion for fighting with each other.

 

Yes, maybe I shouldn't get involved, but keep in mind that there are youth members of this forum as well. What kind of example are you setting for them, being grown men and nitpicking every detail of each other's posts? And not to single out FOG here, but he supplied me with the most recent example of this:

 

[to BW] "...When you're talking to a friend, assuming that you have friends..."

 

My 11 and 13 year old sisters are just growing out of that "insult." I'm somewhat disappointed that it's being used by supposedly respectable adults.

 

Sorry if I offended either of you, and I regrettably suspect that not only will this post do no good whatsoever, but I'm sure one or both of you will attack me now. However, I had to say something. I'm sure I'm not the only person on here who feels this way.

[dsteele 20]

Campfire Fairy shows some guts. She is not the first youth to point to the struggle between two grown men (and sometimes I fall into the same hole.)

 

She is not the first youth to do so. I know Hops has requested a hiatus in the battle between FOG and Bob White. I know I have as well, but I am also guilty of a bit of snickering that I sincerely regret -- with FOG and not with Bob White.

 

I think that we all need to remember that we are all reasonable adults and that there are youth on these board that we need to provide the best example for that we can. We can feel free to disagree, but civility is important.

 

Thanks, Hops. Thanks, Campfire, for reminding me of these obligations. May your courage be a constant reminder of the high threshold that us adults must meet and may you continue it in the future.

 

So . . . do I rock, or what ?

 

DS

[FScouter 24]

Something to think about ...

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"Regardless of what anyone says, youth with valid driver's licenses are legally allowed to drive themselves to regular meetings of the troop."

 

How do you reconcile this opinion with the explicit prohibition on such things by the G2SS?

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Ahem, I just have to point out that Campfire Fairy is a member of the Crew to which I am honored to serve, along with Outdoor Thinker and Campaholic.

 

I just love this Venturing Crew Stuff!

[buffalo2 14]

Thank you Campfire Fairy