Membership: That Was The Year That Was.

[Bob White 20]

There is no scouting regulation that prohibits a licensed driver from driving himself (or herself)to a meeting no matter what their age.

 

BW

[Campfire Fairy 10]

I must admit that I'm not very well educated in the politics of boy scout issues such as these, but being a Venturer myself, I feel I am qualified to make a few comments.

 

First, I have benefitted in a great many ways from my four years in Venturing. I first joined because a few friends of mine were members and they lured me by describing the trip to Assateague, VA they were planning for that summer, a place I'd wanted to go ever since reading the "Misty of Chincoteague" books. I met a lot of new people through Venturing since then, and I've been exposed to a great many situations that I think have not only expanded my knowledge (and wisdom, perhaps?), but they've also strengthened my character, I feel. And the personal victories made on events like rock climbing, weekend backpacking trips (ah, the joys of being hot, sweaty, and stinky and sharing one latrine with 20 other people:P), and even volunteer activities make the deal even sweeter.

 

So I say, okay, maybe The Management went about obtaining members in a shady way, and I'm not saying it's right, but I think, as long as they're given the opportunities Venturing has offered me (and promised to them for joining), maybe it will end up being a kind of blessing in disguise.

[scoutingagain 20]

Eamonn,

 

I wish I had some great words of wisdom for you. All I can say is I've highly regarded your words of wisdom in this forum and hope things work out for the best for you.

 

It seems so many organizations equate "meeting the numbers" as some substantial form of progress. Quality is often a difficult parameter to measure, so organizations measure success by quanitity instead of quality. I would hope the BSA, a great proponent of other, sometimes difficult to measure intangible values such as Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, etc. would avoid this.

 

Keep up the good fight and best of luck.

 

SA

[mk9750 11]

Eammon,

 

One of the only laments I have consistently had over my 12 years in this great program is that it has to be run like a business. There's no way in $^&& that it should have to be, and, at a unit level, I don't think it usually is. But at the district level and above, unfortunately, it does have to be run like a business. And sometimes that means making numbers look good. If it isn't illegal, immoral or dangerous, it sometimes is "just the way it is".

 

ON THE OTHER HAND - if there is something either illegal or immoral, than it is important that anyone who sees the problem do all they can to stop it. I agree with Bob: In many walks of life we carry out instructions we view as distasteful. But no one should be asked to carry out a plan that does not meet the above standards.

 

My father's favorite saying was "All that is necesary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." I'm not there, I can't see. But if you feel as though someone is stinking up the place, I'm behind any effort you make to fumigate.

 

Good luck to you.

 

Mark

[dsteele 20]

NJ --

 

Just take a look at an application to join a Crew (Venturer Application) and you'll see that the youth sign their own application. It was that way with Explorer Posts back in the day when they had applications to join.

 

DS

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"The driver must be currently licensed and at least 18 years of age. Youth member exception: When traveling to and from an area, regional, or national Boy Scout activity or any Venturing event under the leadership of an adult (at least 21 years of age) tour leader, a youth member at least 16 years of age may be a driver, subject to the following conditions:"

 

As I read this, a Troop meeting is not an area, regional or national Boy Scout activity so a Scout may not drive to it. Maybe the words mean different things to you.

 

 

[scoutldr 726]

I have heard the same thing done with a Cub Pack. A charter was issued, now it's our problem to make sure they have leaders, training, etc. My response is that a charter should not be issued until everything is in place to make sure the unit has a fighting chance of survival.

 

FOG, I look at it this way. The "Scout Meeting" begins at 7 pm and ends at 8:30 pm. What they do before and after those times is their parent's problem, not mine. Same is true for a camping trip...when they "check in" at the meeting place, they become my responsibility, not before.

[Eamonn 61]

Hi,

Just to clear up a few points.

No this is not and never has been a unit.

Yes, I am the District Chair.

And No I am not going to win.

I still have had no word from the professional staff other then Pam, our DE. While it might be wrong and unkind of me I think that this is sheer cowardice.

I did call the area president who is a volunteer.He is a vice- president of the council. I was cool, calm and only stuttered a little bit. I expressed my concerns about membership. I didn't want anyone "Signed-up" that didn't sign up of their own free will. We agree on that one.

I said that I wasn't keen on having the DE as the Crew Advisor and that I had no plans of taking on a crew. He said that I didn't have to. But the DE was employed by the council and what her and her boss did was none of our business. I explained that I thought that what made Scouting great was the fact that our leaders were volunteers. He said that our professionals needed to learn the program. I don't agree. But knew that I wasn't going to win that one. I asked about Youth Leaders? He said give it time. This plan has been given the green light by the region. The feeling is that if we are going to make any progress in Venturing, we have to get into the schools.

So I am not going to win at this level.

What the School does is another story.

OJ attends this school and I have invited the head to dinner. If this happens to come up, which it just might I will tell her that I think the idea is a good one if we can tie in with one of the exsisting school clubs and have a teacher act as the advisor. Of course if the spineless people had met with me as I requested I could have let them know who I was having dinner with.

Shame that they didn't think that my resturant did all the parties for the school district.

In fact wasn't that why they wanted me as the District Chair?

Eamonn

[dsteele 20]

Eamonn, Old China:

 

I think you're doing the right thing. Now let's talk methodology.

 

If you approach your dinner with the head of the school from the vantage point of a knowledgeable volunteer who wants to make sure that the school knows of the obligations entered by the local council -- that would be the promise to deliver a program on a monthly basis to all Venturers within the school, as well as the opportunity to use the Venturing program with existing groups -- then you will provide the school with the tools they need to demand a good program for their kids.

 

That would be a good thing. Let the schools demand the council meet the contract.

 

A bad thing would be to make the school believe that the council has no intent to deliver a program to the kdis who signed up. I don't believe that's true, but I do believe that some pressure from the school on the council leaders to "deliver the promise" is a good thing.

 

That's why you're a good district chairman.

 

Dave

[Bob White 20]

Eamonn,

 

You are in a tough spot. Unless the unit is started properly it will genrate the membership increase you FD wants and a tone of difficult work for you and the District Commissioner. Unfortunately the FD will never have to worry about that. I think cowardly describes his actions quite well.

 

This is still your community and the council respresentatives in your District do have a say in this. I see this as a very slipshod way to give the appearance of service to youth without providing the structure and starength to make it lasting.

 

If this is going to happen then you have no choice but to make it happen as correctly as possible. Help to find the needed adults and resources to make it work. Then make your dissatisfaction known to the Scout executive and the rest of the Council Board. This is your FD's job but it is your community. Make sure he understands that distinction.

 

Good Luck,

 

 

FOG the rule you site is for drivers transporting youth members. A Licensed driver can drive himself to any meeting he wants.

 

 

Bob White

[Eamonn 61]

I think that I have stated that I am all for numbers. I have been heard crying from the rooftops that Scouting is a living thing. Just like a business we either are growing or we are dying.

Which reminds me of a story.

"A catholic church had a very popular priest who was relocated. Sad to say his replacement was not that popular. Soon there were things that in the past were done by the parishioners,were not being done. Committees had positions not filled and all in all things were not going well. Still there was one chap who was like a timex watch. He just kept working away doing as much as ever, if not more. Someone asked him if he liked the new priest. He said "Not much" They then asked why he kept working so hard. He said that he wasn't working for the priest, he was working for the church and the church would still be there long after the priest was gone."

On this Venturing issue. It seems to me after really trying to look at it from every angle that "They" are saying "Any program is better then no program." I started with a very hardline point of view. In part because of my distrust of the FD. and some of the things that he has tried to pull in the past. I will go to the dinner and will explain that I think that the values of Scouting over ride everything. There can never be any ifs ands or buts. When we take them away I'm not sure what we have but it isn't Scouting. We may be able to alter the methods and in time make them work as they ought too. Heck - I took that voyage of discovery myself as a leader. I kind of grew into doing things the "right way" After doing different "Eamonn Ways?"

I do have to admit that I think that my feelings about the FD are clouding my judgement. I am trying to put that aside. What is sad is that the idea does have merit and with the right preparation could work and work well.

No matter what I say the FD will have a chance to meet with the people from the school and make his pitch. We all want to get as many youth as possible into Scouting. Not for "Year End" Not because it will look good on a resume(sp)But because we believe in the program and it is the right thing to do.

Eamonn

[evmori 11]

Quantity at the expense of quality just to reach a goal is seldom a good thing and is only a temporary fix. Usually, more problems result this way.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter 24]

Awhile back our DE met with a local corporation that wanted to make a sizable donation to Scouts. They wanted the money to be used to grow the Scouting program. And they wanted to be able to see tangible results from their donation. This meant of course that the money could not simply be dumped into the council pot.

 

The DE worked out a scheme to set up 15 new Venturing crews. One volunteer is the advisor for all the crews. The boys signed up are inmates at the state juvenile prison located in our district. These are paper crews in every sense. Part of the money pays to register the boys, and the rest gets dumped into the council pot.

 

The program for the boys consists of going into the prison 3-4 times a year and doing some kind of 30 minute hands-on demonstration for a dozen boys, usually something like how a compass works.

 

It's great to get corporate donations, but they've been hoodwinked into thinking we have grown the Scouting program in the community.

 

 

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"A Licensed driver can drive himself to any meeting he wants."

 

Where does it say that?

[Bob White 20]

DSteele

We have another situation where FOG will argue only because it is me on the other end. Would you please explain to him that the rules he quotes from are in reference to group member transportation as referenced in the G2SS and that drivers transporting themselves to and from meetings are not controlled by the BSA.

 

Thanks,

Bob White