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Huzzar

Membership Continues Decline

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On the other hand the number of Eagles keeps increasing…hmmmm
Decreasing membership, increasing Eagles. I wonder what the equilibrium point will be? Maybe a boy scout membership 4x the annual number of Eagles earned?

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It National was a car dealer, their strategy could be summed up thusly:

 

Take the most popular, dependable, high-selling cars, and hide them in the back of the lot. When those are gone, don't order more. Instead, promote a lot of shiny but under-powered, undesirable cars. Act surprised when sales drop. But do nothing to bring back that popular car.

 

Outdoor adventure, whether it's a day hike on Saturday or a Philmont trek, is the key to recruiting and retaining scouts. Just as true today as it was a century ago.

 

Successful units/councils get that, and the results prove it.

 

Sustainability merit badge won't get it done.

Horizon what do you mean by recruiting campouts? I'm curious since I would like to bring more kids into my troop. I agree the BSA needs to look more adventuresses. Maybe even make a TV show were they pick a few troops and follow them around. Which would be a hundred times better then that lame "Are you Tougher then an Eagle Scout" show.

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On the other hand the number of Eagles keeps increasing…hmmmm
Declining membership and increasing Eagles probably indicates diminished recruitment and improved retention. Not as many boys are choosing to join but those that do are more likely to remain active and earn the Eagle award. When I was young, almost every boy joined scouts but many of us dropped out long before earning Eagle--I do not remember any Eagles in our troop.

 

When my son joined scouts there was a a 50% attrition the first year but after that most stayed and a large proportion of those became Eagles.

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Your correct Huzzar sorry about that. Either way who would have excepted him of being a pedophilia? He had children and a wife he was a good family man who helped out in his community. The question is if he was a pedophilia who can you trust? That is the real danger and threat to the boys not some openly gay adult leader.
That is the real danger and threat to the boys not some openly gay adult leader.

If that's true, can just I and one other male advisor take the girls in my crew out for a weekend in the woods?

OR how about a couple of college girls taking the older boys in your troop on a week long high adventure?

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It National was a car dealer, their strategy could be summed up thusly:

 

Take the most popular, dependable, high-selling cars, and hide them in the back of the lot. When those are gone, don't order more. Instead, promote a lot of shiny but under-powered, undesirable cars. Act surprised when sales drop. But do nothing to bring back that popular car.

 

Outdoor adventure, whether it's a day hike on Saturday or a Philmont trek, is the key to recruiting and retaining scouts. Just as true today as it was a century ago.

 

Successful units/councils get that, and the results prove it.

 

Sustainability merit badge won't get it done.

It wasn't on purpose, but we realized that we had some pretty cool campout themes (shooting, rock climbing, skiing, beach). Some of my middle schoolers used it to recruit friends come along. For some trips, guests were allowed. For others, like shooting, I insisted on registration. Worked out pretty well. First time I did it, picked up 4 new youth. 2 stuck it out, and one Eagled. Those two are still active in the Crew as well.

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Your correct Huzzar sorry about that. Either way who would have excepted him of being a pedophilia? He had children and a wife he was a good family man who helped out in his community. The question is if he was a pedophilia who can you trust? That is the real danger and threat to the boys not some openly gay adult leader.
YPT wouldn't allow the older girls with all boys I think (someone can correct me on that). I do think that some sort of a YPT adjustment might need to be made in regards to gender desire vs. biological gender.

 

That said, my son has gone on ski trips with the gay youth minister every year since he was 13. The other adults along were a couple of moms staying in the girl's rooms. Never a concern on my part.

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Your correct Huzzar sorry about that. Either way who would have excepted him of being a pedophilia? He had children and a wife he was a good family man who helped out in his community. The question is if he was a pedophilia who can you trust? That is the real danger and threat to the boys not some openly gay adult leader.
YPT does not allow any overnight without at least one leader of the same sex as that of the youth members. The prevalence of opposite sex attractions being so high, BSA without such a policy would be held liable for any statutory rape that may take place under such circumstances.

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It National was a car dealer, their strategy could be summed up thusly:

 

Take the most popular, dependable, high-selling cars, and hide them in the back of the lot. When those are gone, don't order more. Instead, promote a lot of shiny but under-powered, undesirable cars. Act surprised when sales drop. But do nothing to bring back that popular car.

 

Outdoor adventure, whether it's a day hike on Saturday or a Philmont trek, is the key to recruiting and retaining scouts. Just as true today as it was a century ago.

 

Successful units/councils get that, and the results prove it.

 

Sustainability merit badge won't get it done.

I don't think anyone is trying to make scouting all about STEM. The campouts are still the main draw and always will be. But there is nothing wrong with merit badges such as Sustainability--which gives scouts and alternative to Envi Sci which has been required for a long time.

 

I remember a few years ago I was on a high adventure trek with a group of scouts. As we backpacked up and down hills there were two scouts that talked incessantly about processors, operating systems and programs. The occasionally would stop to observe wildlife or a great view but the tech talk was what kept them going.

 

They are Eagles and aged out now. It should come as no surprise that they are engineering students. Some scouts are drawn to STEM and some are not. It is good to have the options.

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Your correct Huzzar sorry about that. Either way who would have excepted him of being a pedophilia? He had children and a wife he was a good family man who helped out in his community. The question is if he was a pedophilia who can you trust? That is the real danger and threat to the boys not some openly gay adult leader.
There were warning signs about Sandusky in 1999, if not earlier. Penn State leadership and local law enforcement glossed over them. Google if you want to see the pissing match about who knew what and when.

 

BSA's guidance about gay youth is to pretend that they have no testosterone, or it is controllable to the extent that a gay kid can switch it off from 5pm Friday until noon Sunday once per month, for a full week every year and for up to 15 days at a time if high adventure is involved.

 

They won't be able to get away with that for leaders. Openly gay leaders will almost certainly lead to inappropriate contact between adults and youth. BSA needs to figure out how they will mitigate that.

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On the other hand the number of Eagles keeps increasing…hmmmm
As part of that the average age of Eagle is also increasing. I think the percentage of Scouts who stay in Scouting has probably increased. I seem to remember that when I was a Scout, most of us only stayed in for a year or two.

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Your correct Huzzar sorry about that. Either way who would have excepted him of being a pedophilia? He had children and a wife he was a good family man who helped out in his community. The question is if he was a pedophilia who can you trust? That is the real danger and threat to the boys not some openly gay adult leader.
The main problem of gay leaders will be perception, not actual abuse. Except for a few really liberal people, no one will want to send their son off to camp with an openly gay man. That said, if YPT is followed, there really is little risk of anything bad happening. My personal preference would be that it should be left up to the CO. If the CO doesn't mind gay leaders, they should be alowed to have gay leaders. If the CO doesn't want gay leaders , they should be allowed to exclude gay leaders

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I think it is very funny, when people say the membership will drop if they let gay adult leaders in. I would be more suspicious of a heterosexual man who wanted to help in the program for a few reasons.

The first is how many openly gay men would join the BSA to molest boys? You wouldn't want people to know that you were gay, and many of the people who molest children are married men. For example, Sandusky was married with biological children. Also if you are that worried then your son shouldn't be playing sport, going outside without a parent, or be in school. There is a chance that someone might do something to your son after all.

The reason I think the BSA membership is falling is simple. Boy Scouts isn't "cool" and it can't compete with the virtual world. In Philadelphia I rarely see kids outside playing they are on their electronics.

I also think Rick is spot on, we have lost kids due to sports, and if your troop requires a certain number of camping trips per year. That will turn off scouts who have other obligation.

I have never understood the issue people have with allowing gay scouts and leaders in, and I don't view it as a good reason to leave scouting.

Scouter99: So you are saying that it is inherent in the nature of homosexuals to sexually abuse youth? What a load of BS. It is no more inherent for homosexuals than it is for heterosexuals.

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Your correct Huzzar sorry about that. Either way who would have excepted him of being a pedophilia? He had children and a wife he was a good family man who helped out in his community. The question is if he was a pedophilia who can you trust? That is the real danger and threat to the boys not some openly gay adult leader.
They won't be able to get away with that for leaders. Openly gay leaders will almost certainly lead to inappropriate contact between adults and youth. BSA needs to figure out how they will mitigate that.

 

Why? Have heterosexual female leaders "lead to inappropriate contact between adults and youth"?

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I think it is very funny, when people say the membership will drop if they let gay adult leaders in. I would be more suspicious of a heterosexual man who wanted to help in the program for a few reasons.

The first is how many openly gay men would join the BSA to molest boys? You wouldn't want people to know that you were gay, and many of the people who molest children are married men. For example, Sandusky was married with biological children. Also if you are that worried then your son shouldn't be playing sport, going outside without a parent, or be in school. There is a chance that someone might do something to your son after all.

The reason I think the BSA membership is falling is simple. Boy Scouts isn't "cool" and it can't compete with the virtual world. In Philadelphia I rarely see kids outside playing they are on their electronics.

I also think Rick is spot on, we have lost kids due to sports, and if your troop requires a certain number of camping trips per year. That will turn off scouts who have other obligation.

I have never understood the issue people have with allowing gay scouts and leaders in, and I don't view it as a good reason to leave scouting.

Again, Rick, as gay writer/editor Karl Andersson has explained in his book Gay Man's Worst Friend, your knee-jerk assumption that any criticism of homosexuals=charges of pedophilia is the result of several decades' effort to dissociate homosexuals from their proclivity to youth as a culture obsessed with sex. If you're comfortable subverting documented (by gays) history to politics, more power to ya (everyone else does it).

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I think it is very funny, when people say the membership will drop if they let gay adult leaders in. I would be more suspicious of a heterosexual man who wanted to help in the program for a few reasons.

The first is how many openly gay men would join the BSA to molest boys? You wouldn't want people to know that you were gay, and many of the people who molest children are married men. For example, Sandusky was married with biological children. Also if you are that worried then your son shouldn't be playing sport, going outside without a parent, or be in school. There is a chance that someone might do something to your son after all.

The reason I think the BSA membership is falling is simple. Boy Scouts isn't "cool" and it can't compete with the virtual world. In Philadelphia I rarely see kids outside playing they are on their electronics.

I also think Rick is spot on, we have lost kids due to sports, and if your troop requires a certain number of camping trips per year. That will turn off scouts who have other obligation.

I have never understood the issue people have with allowing gay scouts and leaders in, and I don't view it as a good reason to leave scouting.

Seriously? If a gay man doesn't desire to sexually abuse teenagers it's because of a "...several decades' effort to dissociate homosexuals from their proclivity to youth..."? That's it's all some sort of conspiracy to hide the truth about gay people? Am I understanding your point?

 

As for: "your knee-jerk assumption that any criticism of homosexuals=charges of pedophilia", what a load. I don't assume anything of the sort. I'm just reacting when I see people like you writing stuff of the form: "most gay people secretly want to abuse teens, it's part of their culture". Or is that not what you are saying?

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