Stosh 3452 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Yeah, that level of blatant dishonesty deserves to be kicked up a rung or two. Dismissal may be steep, but removal from PORs and an extended period of probation under which he is ineligible for advancement is certainly in order. Any SM conferences or non-advancement boards of review need to include the parents. Honestly, how we resolve things like this depends much on the parent's attitude. If we feel as the parents are supporting and working with us, we are much more likely to let them deal with the situation. If mom and dad come in with an attitude it won't go as well.Because the parents are more interested in getting Eagle for their dear angelic child than they are in building his character. I've seen this scenario played out far too many times. Parents who are upset their kid got caught than they are of the infraction he committed. If the SM hadn't made such a big stink out of it and blocked his Eagle, he'd have his Eagle pin by now. And everyone else was doing it too, but the SM was just making an example out of my boys. I could go on for pages on the excuses I have heard over the years. Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
Momleader 65 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Before you shred the card, schedule a meeting with the councillor, scout, his parents and maybe your committee chair and scoutmaster, couldn't hurt to involve the unit Comissioner too. Start by has king the lad what the 1st point if the scout law is. Then allow a large enough shovel for him dig his hole. Shred when hole is complete.... Key is his parents should be there, and the others so there are witnesses to the 'falsehoods' told Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4342 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 BD, something still isn't adding up. Boy says he used his cat, MBC says he was shown pics of boy and dog. Mom would have a lot of Moxie trying to pull one over on the MBC .. and then, expecting the boy to keep his story straight ... Is she blonde by any chance? I'd still tow the line that your signature isn't on the card, and it is therefore null and void. (No need for dramatic shredding ceremony.) It would be unfair to the other boys if you'd let this one slide. Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4342 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Before you shred the card, schedule a meeting with the councillor, scout, his parents and maybe your committee chair and scoutmaster, couldn't hurt to involve the unit Comissioner too. Start by has king the lad what the 1st point if the scout law is. Then allow a large enough shovel for him dig his hole. Shred when hole is complete.... Key is his parents should be there, and the others so there are witnesses to the 'falsehoods' toldAlthough all the drama would make good theater. That's a lot of busy people to try to get in one room. SM and boy should be sufficient for whatever upkicking is needed. Remember that this whole thing started because a boy wanted to bypass interaction with the SM. Link to post Share on other sites
Baseballfan 32 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 ugh, this one really ticks me off. I am so glad they have finally allowed some way of recourse for when you know the Scout did not do the work. My younger son badly wants a dog, and the dog care badge, but he will not be getting a dog until he can work and pay for it himself. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 BD, something still isn't adding up. Boy says he used his cat, MBC says he was shown pics of boy and dog. Mom would have a lot of Moxie trying to pull one over on the MBC .. and then, expecting the boy to keep his story straight ... Is she blonde by any chance? I'd still tow the line that your signature isn't on the card, and it is therefore null and void. (No need for dramatic shredding ceremony.) It would be unfair to the other boys if you'd let this one slide. I know the family my son spends the night at his house regularly, I know they do not have a dog which is why I even inquired as to the how, when, where and why. I asked my son about whether they had a dog in their house last summer, he said no. When I asked about how he completed the badge when he didn't have a dog, he said he used his cat to do the care log. ok, keeping a log is keeping a log right. When I called the councilor, the councilor said the boy had pictures of himself and a dog. I will ask to see the pictures and find out whose dog it is and the circumstances of the pictures.. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Before you shred the card, schedule a meeting with the councillor, scout, his parents and maybe your committee chair and scoutmaster, couldn't hurt to involve the unit Comissioner too. Start by has king the lad what the 1st point if the scout law is. Then allow a large enough shovel for him dig his hole. Shred when hole is complete.... Key is his parents should be there, and the others so there are witnesses to the 'falsehoods' toldThe Committee chair wants a piece of it as well. I am not going to bother the MBC again. he answered my questions honestly. Whats a unit commissioner, I am joking.....Unit commissioners are rare as hens teeth.....Why would they need to be involved in something this trivial. The lad and mom got caught lying. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Yeah, that level of blatant dishonesty deserves to be kicked up a rung or two. Dismissal may be steep, but removal from PORs and an extended period of probation under which he is ineligible for advancement is certainly in order. Any SM conferences or non-advancement boards of review need to include the parents. Honestly, how we resolve things like this depends much on the parent's attitude. If we feel as the parents are supporting and working with us, we are much more likely to let them deal with the situation. If mom and dad come in with an attitude it won't go as well.that is why your unit will end up lower quality Eagles than my unit. there both mammals, he did the log....Bottom line he lied and didn't follow procedure. I can do quality control on the program now, either he straightens out or I can whine about another undeserving eagle in the coming years. I prefer dealing with it now when he is first class. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 ugh, this one really ticks me off. I am so glad they have finally allowed some way of recourse for when you know the Scout did not do the work. My younger son badly wants a dog, and the dog care badge, but he will not be getting a dog until he can work and pay for it himself. Oh, you mean that 2 months of Dog Care just isn't for the MB? And maybe if that dog were to live for 10-12 years one would have to actually know what they were doing with the MB requirements? Isn't that going beyond the requirements of the MB? Please note the above comment is dripping with sarcasm. It think it is an excellent opportunity to realize the MB's are a long term commitment beyond the 2 months of the MB requirement. I hope your son works his butt off and gets his dog. It'll be a sad day when he has to go off to college and when he looks back to wave goodbye, there's you, the Mrs. and his dog. Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
Bando 21 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Yeah, that level of blatant dishonesty deserves to be kicked up a rung or two. Dismissal may be steep, but removal from PORs and an extended period of probation under which he is ineligible for advancement is certainly in order. Any SM conferences or non-advancement boards of review need to include the parents. Honestly, how we resolve things like this depends much on the parent's attitude. If we feel as the parents are supporting and working with us, we are much more likely to let them deal with the situation. If mom and dad come in with an attitude it won't go as well.Since when do we rank Eagles by "quality," and since when did "my Eagles are better than your Eagles" become a thing? Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4342 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 ugh, this one really ticks me off. I am so glad they have finally allowed some way of recourse for when you know the Scout did not do the work. My younger son badly wants a dog, and the dog care badge, but he will not be getting a dog until he can work and pay for it himself. Hold that line Bbf! And don't let the Mrs. and Junior talk to my wife. While Son #2 and I were getting ready for summer camp a couple of years ago, the day before Father's day, she puts Daughter on the line who says "Daddy, why can't we have a puppy?" Two years later, she's away at school, and I got 90 pounds of canine jumping on me at 06:30 sharp ready to be fed. Worse part, I offer to take it hiking and camping with me and everyone pitches a fit! (Bears n'at ...) Would have been a perfect weekend for it. Then while I'm away, she leaves a bag of chocolate candy on a counter and between the foil and the toxins spends the next day massaging his gut fearing he's a gonner. At least with me the worst thing he would have gotten into was a chipmunk (and from experience with other dogs, don't seem to bind the gut at all). Clearly the wrong people are taking this merit badge. >: Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Yeah, that level of blatant dishonesty deserves to be kicked up a rung or two. Dismissal may be steep, but removal from PORs and an extended period of probation under which he is ineligible for advancement is certainly in order. Any SM conferences or non-advancement boards of review need to include the parents. Honestly, how we resolve things like this depends much on the parent's attitude. If we feel as the parents are supporting and working with us, we are much more likely to let them deal with the situation. If mom and dad come in with an attitude it won't go as well.A fairly common topic. Everyone whines about Eagles who lack leadership skills, can't tie knots, can't read a map or us a compass, don't know first aid, can't start a fire, can't fill out a merit badge card, can't plan a menu or campout, or even set up a tent. These are the low quality eagles, well along with the perverts, drug abusers, fighters and general hooligans. My lads will have the expected skills Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 ugh, this one really ticks me off. I am so glad they have finally allowed some way of recourse for when you know the Scout did not do the work. My younger son badly wants a dog, and the dog care badge, but he will not be getting a dog until he can work and pay for it himself. Everyone has their own cross to bear. I have 2 dogs and 3 cats. Cat #1 was my daughter's who developed an alergy to it. Cat #2 was my son's who didn't want it anymore. Cat #3 is my step-daughter's who abandoned it when she went off to college. Dog #1 is my wife's. Got to cut her a bit of slack, I knew she had it when I married her. Dog #2 is my daughter's gift that didn't work out for her. So, there's my family now and I enjoy every moment of them all. Even at 5:30 am when it's breakfast time! So how do I deal with it? 2 dogs in kennels at night, one cat likes outside overnight, other cat sleeps at foot of bed and the last one on the pillows. I did, however, train the cats to sleep on the wife's side of the bed. Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
Bando 21 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Yeah, that level of blatant dishonesty deserves to be kicked up a rung or two. Dismissal may be steep, but removal from PORs and an extended period of probation under which he is ineligible for advancement is certainly in order. Any SM conferences or non-advancement boards of review need to include the parents. Honestly, how we resolve things like this depends much on the parent's attitude. If we feel as the parents are supporting and working with us, we are much more likely to let them deal with the situation. If mom and dad come in with an attitude it won't go as well.An Eagle is an Eagle as far as the rank is concerned. There's no gold-border patch for superstar skills achievement. Link to post Share on other sites
Oldscout448 697 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Turns out the lad lied to the councilor. The merit badge councilor took the boy and moms word on the Dog training and log. Seems he had pictures of himself and a dog, not sure whose it is or was. There will be a discussion about honestly, then the card will be shredded....... You can yell at me and say you can't do that......Oh yes I can and will. Trying to make a point with the young man. I am sick of being lied to by scouts and scouters. My foot is down and firmly planted. If this is a deal breaker for the lad.....Sorry you can enjoy your scouting elsewhere because you didn't meet the merit badge requirements. I am done with the dishonesty. Base, you are my hero of the day! My old SM was a huge gruff old WWII vet who loved us like his own sons and would go to hell and back for his "boys", but God help you if you lied or cheated. 20 years after I aged out I was passing through the old neighborhood and stopped by to see/thank him. I was a new DL at the time so I asked if he had any advice for me. He replied " Do what is RIGHT and don't worry about what other people say." that's wisdom I've tried to follow for the last 18 years as a scouter Link to post Share on other sites
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