Shutdown ?

[moosetracker 132]

Problem of course is that the ACA was rammed through congress using budget reconciliation instead of actually getting the votes to pass the bill. This was done as a parliamentary maneuver by the Obama administration because he lost his 60-vote filibuster proof majority in the Senate the fall before when Brown was elected to fill Kennedy's seat. Rather than fight he used a process designed to cut the budget deficit to expand it dramatically. Some may call that good politics, some will call it Executive over-reach, some will call it a handful of extremist nutbags pushing an agenda.

 

As for the thought the republicans are being cornered into their "bright red distracts [sic]" you might want to look at the 2010 and 2012 elections. In 2008 the Democrats held 61 seats in the Senate and 256 in the house. In the next congress that went to 56/193 and in the next 51/200. In the President's home state a Republican was elected to take the President's old Senate seat. Don't forget that the folks in the congress are actually elected by the people, not the electoral college. The mid-terms next year will be interesting.

 

As for folks in Europe worrying about the US, meh. Maybe they should be worried about the collapse of the socialist economy in Greece (and Portugal and Spain and others). Maybe the US should be weary of traveling that same road.

 

You lost your arguement with "60-vote filibuster".. If 51 members of the Senate were for it.. It's perfectly a legal manover to me to find a way around an forced 60 vote tactic.

[moosetracker 132]

It got the votes. It passed. Its been upheld by the Supreme Court. We've had a presidential election since then, and the president was reelected.

 

If the House wants to repeal it, go ahead and keep taking meaningless votes. If the House wants the Senate to act on any of those proposals, then they better be willing to offer something in return. What has the House offered?

 

If the Democratic Senate or the President allows the Republican House to put policy/program demands into continuing resolutions, what will happen when the next continuing resolution comes up? In two weeks when the "Debt Limit" will be reached, what will be the demand made to keep the nation from defaulting, a national abortion ban?

Don't forget Fehler this isn't even funding the government for a full year, but only something for a 6 weeks extension, so Congress can sit down an negotiate on the real budget.. Something the Senate passed in May and has asked for 18 times for a meeting on.. Republican house refused to negoitate in those 6 month so that they could get this show down.. So if Dems cave to such extreme demands to a 6 week extension, you have got not only the Debt limit but the real funding bill..

 

Nope let republicans tank in the polls for both independents and moderate Republicans.. Kill the support (and donations) they have received from Wall street who are already turning their backs on them.. It is just a question of how much they will set the economic recovery back and get the anger of the whole country and then if they start threatening the debt ceiling the whole world, before they come to their senses..

[berliner 55]

Problem of course is that the ACA was rammed through congress using budget reconciliation instead of actually getting the votes to pass the bill. This was done as a parliamentary maneuver by the Obama administration because he lost his 60-vote filibuster proof majority in the Senate the fall before when Brown was elected to fill Kennedy's seat. Rather than fight he used a process designed to cut the budget deficit to expand it dramatically. Some may call that good politics, some will call it Executive over-reach, some will call it a handful of extremist nutbags pushing an agenda.

 

As for the thought the republicans are being cornered into their "bright red distracts [sic]" you might want to look at the 2010 and 2012 elections. In 2008 the Democrats held 61 seats in the Senate and 256 in the house. In the next congress that went to 56/193 and in the next 51/200. In the President's home state a Republican was elected to take the President's old Senate seat. Don't forget that the folks in the congress are actually elected by the people, not the electoral college. The mid-terms next year will be interesting.

 

As for folks in Europe worrying about the US, meh. Maybe they should be worried about the collapse of the socialist economy in Greece (and Portugal and Spain and others). Maybe the US should be weary of traveling that same road.

 

Except that the european debt crisis has nothing to do with a socialist economy but problems with a free and uncontrolled banking market ...

 

If the US can afford all these wars it should be easy as to fund healthcare. I really dont understand why the US doesnt have it yet. Being social is not necessarily socialist.

[walk in the woods 888]

Problem of course is that the ACA was rammed through congress using budget reconciliation instead of actually getting the votes to pass the bill. This was done as a parliamentary maneuver by the Obama administration because he lost his 60-vote filibuster proof majority in the Senate the fall before when Brown was elected to fill Kennedy's seat. Rather than fight he used a process designed to cut the budget deficit to expand it dramatically. Some may call that good politics, some will call it Executive over-reach, some will call it a handful of extremist nutbags pushing an agenda.

 

As for the thought the republicans are being cornered into their "bright red distracts [sic]" you might want to look at the 2010 and 2012 elections. In 2008 the Democrats held 61 seats in the Senate and 256 in the house. In the next congress that went to 56/193 and in the next 51/200. In the President's home state a Republican was elected to take the President's old Senate seat. Don't forget that the folks in the congress are actually elected by the people, not the electoral college. The mid-terms next year will be interesting.

 

As for folks in Europe worrying about the US, meh. Maybe they should be worried about the collapse of the socialist economy in Greece (and Portugal and Spain and others). Maybe the US should be weary of traveling that same road.

 

The government could no longer borrow enough money to make their payroll.......Call it what you will.

 

As for the filibuster, that's a simple Senate rule. It can be changed by a simple majority vote at any time in the Senate. You should call Reid to get the rules changed before they make an end-run around them.

[King Ding Dong 540]

Hope things work out for you Papadaddy.. You hear things that make you hope a quick settlement is close at hand, then you hear stuff that say no one is ready to give in.. Either republicans have to give it up with nothing.. Or the Democrats need to throw them a small bone so they can save face.

 

The most promise I saw was this one video that was with two Republicans ready to refund government and back down.. So, they are not the ones in the lead.. But they were asked if they would deal on the funding of the Government AND not pulling this again on the Deficit if the Democrats offered them a trade in the Medical Device tax (from what I read there is already some agreement on that change).. Those two wanted a way out.. They were just looking for some bone thrown so they could save face (or perhaps it was more that the more radical elements of their party could save face.) and get out of the whole mess..

 

Again, don't know if it would not out the 30-40 house reps & Ted Cruise that are the only ones calling the shots.. And it meant the Dems had to take pity and throw the bone.. Dems I know wouldn't do it just for a 6 week fund the government.. But they might if they could also disarm the threat of Reps trying to take the Deficit fight as a new hostage.. That might be large enough to let them deal something..

 

But who knows.. It sounded like a great idea, but none of the people talking was a lead person who could start the wheel rolling.

 

All I can say is really, really stupid.. Never should of happened, and I hope for you and lots of others in your position, this is short lived.

SR540, i find it a real stretch to claim the republicans want to cut the little guys taxes. The vast majority of any tax cuts they propose go to the top. I think about that EVERY time I go to the ballot box.

[Pack18Alex 92]

It got the votes. It passed. Its been upheld by the Supreme Court. We've had a presidential election since then, and the president was reelected.

 

If the House wants to repeal it, go ahead and keep taking meaningless votes. If the House wants the Senate to act on any of those proposals, then they better be willing to offer something in return. What has the House offered?

 

If the Democratic Senate or the President allows the Republican House to put policy/program demands into continuing resolutions, what will happen when the next continuing resolution comes up? In two weeks when the "Debt Limit" will be reached, what will be the demand made to keep the nation from defaulting, a national abortion ban?

Can I point out the MINOR issue that to invoke Cloture, the Democrats in Massachusetts bypassed the required public notice period to pass a new law letting the governor appoint a replacement Senator (most states do this as normal, when Romney was Governor, the Massachusetts legislature changed the law for special elections). The legislature let the governor appoint a replacement, he voted to invoke cloture, and the bill was passed. It was then "fixed" via reconciliation after Brown was elected.

 

But the Massachusetts Democratic Party passed a law in Massachusetts in violation of the legislative rules for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to send a temporary Senator to DC to pass the ACA before the elected official, elected by campaigning as the 41st vote to stop ACA, and they rammed it through anyway with reconciliation.

 

Nothing about how ACA was passed was "normal" or "got the votes," it was all with parliamentary trickery.

 

Which is part of why there is so much anger.

 

I'm actually impressed the GOP is not making it about abortion, that's what they normally do in these situations.

[Fehler 118]

And Norm Coleman in MN refused to concede a 300 vote loss to Al Franken until every court had their say, dragging it out until July 2009. And Arlen Spector in PA switched parties in April 2009. And the guy appointed to complete Obama's Senate in IL term bought his seat (allegedly) from crooked Governor Rod Blagoevich (Burris was cleared of any wrongdoing). And, as you said, Ted Kennedy died, and a change was made in the Senatorial Appointment laws to prevent a 5-month vacancy.

 

Even if what your saying it correct (and I don't grant you that fact), you claim that if the heavily Democratic MA legislature followed proper public disclosure laws (which I'm not convinced that they didn't), it would have prevented the the law from passing, and Kirk's appointment, in the window of time between Kennedy's death ant Brown's swearing in ceremony? How long of a public notice period are we talking here?

 

The ACA passed. Normal. Laws and rules were followed. Lots of things get passed under reconciliation (even health care: that's what the "R" in "COBRA" stands for). Even the "Deem and Pass" procedure is legal. The issue is settled.

[Peregrinator 85]

Well, yes, the issue is settled -- for now. That the ACA is law does not at all mean that there cannot be further debate on the subject.

[Eagledad 2779]

I lived through a lot of presidental terms and I'm pretty up to speed to what's really going on in Washington now. My biggest concern for our countrie's future is that the next generation will believe that Obama's behavior is presidental. I've worked for the government for many years and I've never read such a immature letter like the one Obama sent me yesterday. No way would a responsible media ever let any president ever get away with it. I am really concerned for the country my kids are being stuck with. Barry

[Stosh 3452]

If all non-essential personal are furloughed, what are the congressmen still doing in the capital?

 

It is not an issue of Dems and Reps, it's a issue of people and government. Government (both parties) are more worried about themselves than the people the are supposed to be representing. Like the WWII vets, the day's coming when the people will step in and totally ignore the governmental barriers.

 

Stosh

[NeverAnEagle 20]

Must be a bummer to be formally labelled as "non-essential" in your job.

Non-essential means no one will die if I don't show up.

 

Timber sales on National Forest land have stopped; if you asked a mill owner he'd say the guy who authorizes the sale is essential, yet no one dies if the foresters don't go to work, hence they are not working right now.

 

Ironically the USDA labeled food inspectors non-essential, so don't eat any eggs or spinach as there is no one to watch for Salmonella or ecoli. I guess they are letting the private health care sector worry about the "you might die" bit.

[moosetracker 132]

It got the votes. It passed. Its been upheld by the Supreme Court. We've had a presidential election since then, and the president was reelected.

 

If the House wants to repeal it, go ahead and keep taking meaningless votes. If the House wants the Senate to act on any of those proposals, then they better be willing to offer something in return. What has the House offered?

 

If the Democratic Senate or the President allows the Republican House to put policy/program demands into continuing resolutions, what will happen when the next continuing resolution comes up? In two weeks when the "Debt Limit" will be reached, what will be the demand made to keep the nation from defaulting, a national abortion ban?

Well, they are coming up with a whole new list on their wish list for the "debt ceiling".. The personhood bill was discussed.. Won't be surprised if it comes up attached to something before the end of the month..

[moosetracker 132]

I lived through a lot of presidental terms and I'm pretty up to speed to what's really going on in Washington now. My biggest concern for our countrie's future is that the next generation will believe that Obama's behavior is presidental. I've worked for the government for many years and I've never read such a immature letter like the one Obama sent me yesterday. No way would a responsible media ever let any president ever get away with it. I am really concerned for the country my kids are being stuck with. Barry

Wow!! your on such personal terms as to receive personal letters from the POTUS !!?? Wow.. I am impressed, especially as you don't seem to be on such friendly terms with him. (Note the sarcasm.)

[King Ding Dong 540]

I lived through a lot of presidental terms and I'm pretty up to speed to what's really going on in Washington now. My biggest concern for our countrie's future is that the next generation will believe that Obama's behavior is presidental. I've worked for the government for many years and I've never read such a immature letter like the one Obama sent me yesterday. No way would a responsible media ever let any president ever get away with it. I am really concerned for the country my kids are being stuck with. Barry

I would like to see that immature letter from the President. Bring it on!!!

[NeverAnEagle 20]

You do not have to worry about the government shutting down. The President and the Congressmen are still going to get their salary!

NJCubScouter: Could be a local deal for the Courts. Maybe limited funding from fee's etc. are why the clerks are working, but the lawyers aren't?

 

In the Pacific Northwest the Bonneville Power Administration managed to have carry over funds from last year and are using those to keep their employees on the job, at least for a little while. Other agencies are not so lucky.

 

I was still in college when the shut-down happened under Clinton, so I can't offer any comparisons.