Shutdown ?

[packsaddle 753]

To try to make this a bit more Scouting again (a few of you seem to forgetting the Oath and Law in your interactions)...

 

If we want to balance the books, then you have to either increase revenue or cut spending. If you want to play with spending, CATO has put some information on a site:

 

http://www.downsizinggovernment.org

 

This could be a good exercise for Scouts in Cit Nation - what would you cut? Make them approach each cut from an Oath and Law perspective along with the Constitution.

 

A flip side is to ask them what things could the government do? For this debate, do they agree that there is a problem with people who have no access to affordable healthcare? How would they solve that? What is the obligation of the nation? Help educate the discussion. Show them the historical levels of deficit and debt (and PLEASE make sure that they know the difference).

 

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/debt_deficit_history

 

Then you can talk about historical taxation levels, and you can teach them about the EFFECTIVE tax rate (which is vastly different from initial rate). Lots of information there:

 

http://strata.oreilly.com/2013/01/us-tax-rates-visualization.html

 

If you want to get deeper, you can overlay these numbers with party control of the House, Senate and Presidency and try to find a pattern, anywhere.

 

I'm with you, jblake. Abolish Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid and the deficit would vaporize. The national debt would shrink rapidly. Remove ALL tax deductions and ALL subsidies, abolish the IRS, and embrace the Fair Tax. Things would be interesting for a while but we'd get back into good shape quickly.

[JoeBob 606]

To try to make this a bit more Scouting again (a few of you seem to forgetting the Oath and Law in your interactions)...

 

If we want to balance the books, then you have to either increase revenue or cut spending. If you want to play with spending, CATO has put some information on a site:

 

http://www.downsizinggovernment.org

 

This could be a good exercise for Scouts in Cit Nation - what would you cut? Make them approach each cut from an Oath and Law perspective along with the Constitution.

 

A flip side is to ask them what things could the government do? For this debate, do they agree that there is a problem with people who have no access to affordable healthcare? How would they solve that? What is the obligation of the nation? Help educate the discussion. Show them the historical levels of deficit and debt (and PLEASE make sure that they know the difference).

 

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/debt_deficit_history

 

Then you can talk about historical taxation levels, and you can teach them about the EFFECTIVE tax rate (which is vastly different from initial rate). Lots of information there:

 

http://strata.oreilly.com/2013/01/us-tax-rates-visualization.html

 

If you want to get deeper, you can overlay these numbers with party control of the House, Senate and Presidency and try to find a pattern, anywhere.

 

Hear hear!

[berliner 55]

Just read this:

AFN Back On The Air!

 

The American Forces Network (AFN) is working to restore full television service to the overseas audience within the next 24 hours.

 

As a result of civilian workers being allowed to return to work at the AFN Broadcast Center in California, plans are underway to launch AFN|sports, AFN|family, AFN|xtra and AFN|movie today (Monday, October 07). The programs required for AFN|sports are mostly live and, as a result, are immediately available; the inventory for AFN|movie and AFN|family exists on servers at the AFN BC and is also easily obtainable now that the workforce has returned.

The remaining channels, AFN|spectrum and the two AFN|prime channels (Pacific and Atlantic), will require a bit more time to restart since the programs have to be recorded from Stateside feeds and prepared for rebroadcast in the appropriate time slots. Service of these channels should be up and running by prime time Tuesday (Japan Korea Time and Central European Time).

AFN|news has remained on the air since the furlough began on October 02.

 

 

So the cold war and the communists where never ever able to shut off AFN, even way behind the iron curtin. Only Congress was competent enough to do it ...

[Horizon 97]

To try to make this a bit more Scouting again (a few of you seem to forgetting the Oath and Law in your interactions)...

 

If we want to balance the books, then you have to either increase revenue or cut spending. If you want to play with spending, CATO has put some information on a site:

 

http://www.downsizinggovernment.org

 

This could be a good exercise for Scouts in Cit Nation - what would you cut? Make them approach each cut from an Oath and Law perspective along with the Constitution.

 

A flip side is to ask them what things could the government do? For this debate, do they agree that there is a problem with people who have no access to affordable healthcare? How would they solve that? What is the obligation of the nation? Help educate the discussion. Show them the historical levels of deficit and debt (and PLEASE make sure that they know the difference).

 

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/debt_deficit_history

 

Then you can talk about historical taxation levels, and you can teach them about the EFFECTIVE tax rate (which is vastly different from initial rate). Lots of information there:

 

http://strata.oreilly.com/2013/01/us-tax-rates-visualization.html

 

If you want to get deeper, you can overlay these numbers with party control of the House, Senate and Presidency and try to find a pattern, anywhere.

 

We carried the Civil War debt for years. The bigger issue is Korea and Vietnam - wars we fought without sacrificing a thing. (aside from those without the connections to dodge the war that is)

 

The Fair Tax will trigger black market and bartering when you hit that level of taxation. It will also reduce consumption, reducing income and profits. The economic shock will not be small.

 

The Flat Tax from Hall and Rabushka is another model for tax reform, but it too will have an impact on behavior, but less than the so-called Fair Tax. http://www.hoover.org/publications/books/8329

 

So you want to end Social Security? How many dead are you willing to accept? Will you pay to relocate the elderly into their families' homes, or just leave them on the street? After all, without the monthly check, grandma won't eat and won't keep the heat on. We kill a few every winter on the East coast when heating oil prices spike. Ending a program like that will not be easy. Let us hear your plan for ending entitlements that will not result in bringing back the problems they were designed to solve.

 

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

[Horizon 97]

To try to make this a bit more Scouting again (a few of you seem to forgetting the Oath and Law in your interactions)...

 

If we want to balance the books, then you have to either increase revenue or cut spending. If you want to play with spending, CATO has put some information on a site:

 

http://www.downsizinggovernment.org

 

This could be a good exercise for Scouts in Cit Nation - what would you cut? Make them approach each cut from an Oath and Law perspective along with the Constitution.

 

A flip side is to ask them what things could the government do? For this debate, do they agree that there is a problem with people who have no access to affordable healthcare? How would they solve that? What is the obligation of the nation? Help educate the discussion. Show them the historical levels of deficit and debt (and PLEASE make sure that they know the difference).

 

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/debt_deficit_history

 

Then you can talk about historical taxation levels, and you can teach them about the EFFECTIVE tax rate (which is vastly different from initial rate). Lots of information there:

 

http://strata.oreilly.com/2013/01/us-tax-rates-visualization.html

 

If you want to get deeper, you can overlay these numbers with party control of the House, Senate and Presidency and try to find a pattern, anywhere.

 

The Civil War, by the way, was paid for with the Income Tax. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/11/the-long-story-of-us-debt-from-1790-to-2011-in-1-little-chart/265185/

[packsaddle 753]

To try to make this a bit more Scouting again (a few of you seem to forgetting the Oath and Law in your interactions)...

 

If we want to balance the books, then you have to either increase revenue or cut spending. If you want to play with spending, CATO has put some information on a site:

 

http://www.downsizinggovernment.org

 

This could be a good exercise for Scouts in Cit Nation - what would you cut? Make them approach each cut from an Oath and Law perspective along with the Constitution.

 

A flip side is to ask them what things could the government do? For this debate, do they agree that there is a problem with people who have no access to affordable healthcare? How would they solve that? What is the obligation of the nation? Help educate the discussion. Show them the historical levels of deficit and debt (and PLEASE make sure that they know the difference).

 

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/debt_deficit_history

 

Then you can talk about historical taxation levels, and you can teach them about the EFFECTIVE tax rate (which is vastly different from initial rate). Lots of information there:

 

http://strata.oreilly.com/2013/01/us-tax-rates-visualization.html

 

If you want to get deeper, you can overlay these numbers with party control of the House, Senate and Presidency and try to find a pattern, anywhere.

 

Horizon, I hear you. As I have written in the past, we can abolish those programs with a realistic means test and then use the regular ol' welfare system to take care of the indigent...if that is what society wants to do. Fact is, we are all going to die. There's nothing particularly good or noble about prolonging it in misery...especially if that action takes resources away from the young. And yes, if welfare isn't good enough, let their families fill out their lifestyle. Why should society compensate for persons who failed to save adequately or else just couldn't earn the resources to cover their 'retirement'? I'd rather devote those resources to education and health for children because THAT is where the future is for this country.

 

Also with respect to the Fair Tax, you wrote, " It will also reduce consumption". And your point is? This is one reason I like the Fair Tax so much. It will make most of us much more conservative than we are and we'll use fewer resources, have less environmental impact, etc. as a result. All good.

[DigitalScout 75]

To try to make this a bit more Scouting again (a few of you seem to forgetting the Oath and Law in your interactions)...

 

If we want to balance the books, then you have to either increase revenue or cut spending. If you want to play with spending, CATO has put some information on a site:

 

http://www.downsizinggovernment.org

 

This could be a good exercise for Scouts in Cit Nation - what would you cut? Make them approach each cut from an Oath and Law perspective along with the Constitution.

 

A flip side is to ask them what things could the government do? For this debate, do they agree that there is a problem with people who have no access to affordable healthcare? How would they solve that? What is the obligation of the nation? Help educate the discussion. Show them the historical levels of deficit and debt (and PLEASE make sure that they know the difference).

 

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/debt_deficit_history

 

Then you can talk about historical taxation levels, and you can teach them about the EFFECTIVE tax rate (which is vastly different from initial rate). Lots of information there:

 

http://strata.oreilly.com/2013/01/us-tax-rates-visualization.html

 

If you want to get deeper, you can overlay these numbers with party control of the House, Senate and Presidency and try to find a pattern, anywhere.

 

The fact is that the vast majority of our society is a lot more compassionate and has made a decision collectively to take care of injured workers, children born with birth defects, the elderly, the handicapped, and veterans disabled from fighting our wars.

 

If you want to see what our country would look like without federal assistance for the needy, handicapped, and elderly, just take a walk through Tijuana, Mexico. The streets are teeming with people with missing limbs and a various birth defects, filthy dirty and begging for money. It's quite depressing.

[Horizon 97]

To try to make this a bit more Scouting again (a few of you seem to forgetting the Oath and Law in your interactions)...

 

If we want to balance the books, then you have to either increase revenue or cut spending. If you want to play with spending, CATO has put some information on a site:

 

http://www.downsizinggovernment.org

 

This could be a good exercise for Scouts in Cit Nation - what would you cut? Make them approach each cut from an Oath and Law perspective along with the Constitution.

 

A flip side is to ask them what things could the government do? For this debate, do they agree that there is a problem with people who have no access to affordable healthcare? How would they solve that? What is the obligation of the nation? Help educate the discussion. Show them the historical levels of deficit and debt (and PLEASE make sure that they know the difference).

 

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/debt_deficit_history

 

Then you can talk about historical taxation levels, and you can teach them about the EFFECTIVE tax rate (which is vastly different from initial rate). Lots of information there:

 

http://strata.oreilly.com/2013/01/us-tax-rates-visualization.html

 

If you want to get deeper, you can overlay these numbers with party control of the House, Senate and Presidency and try to find a pattern, anywhere.

 

A means test sounds good, but it requires auditors. I have mentioned that I have bankrupted my parents. By that, I mean that I have ensured that they do not have any assets in their name. So if the people decide to means test my parents, my father will get coverage as a veteran of the Vietnam adventure and my mother will get anything covered since I have ensured that she can not be bankrupted by a jacked up system of physicians at $600k per year, nurses at $150k per year, and aspirin at $400 per pill.

 

The system is far more jacked up (as my Scouts put it) than just the ACA - yet the Republicans refuse to admit that.

 

Again - how many are willing to let die or go bankrupt due to a lack of healthcare? Or, alternatively, what is your proposal to fix the problem of $400 aspirin in the hospital? The birth of my son was either $30k or $5k, depending on whether I was uninsured (the $30k) or insured (the $5k).

 

The silence from the right wing is deafening on this subject.

[DigitalScout 75]

When congress "passes" the most sweeping social welfare program in a generation by parliamentary maneuver and with NO bipartisan support, it should be no surprise that the peoples' house would lead a revolt.

A clear majority of Americans support the ACA/Obamacare. The repeal of the ACA was one the main Republican planks of the 2012 election. Yet Obama was reelected by a wide margin, the Republicans lost 2 seats in the Senate and 13 seats in the House. Americans aren't digging what the Republicans are selling.

 

Now the Republicans stand a good chance of losing their majority in the House in the 2014 election because of their obstructionism and government shutdown. They are just slipping further into irrelevance.

[packsaddle 753]

To try to make this a bit more Scouting again (a few of you seem to forgetting the Oath and Law in your interactions)...

 

If we want to balance the books, then you have to either increase revenue or cut spending. If you want to play with spending, CATO has put some information on a site:

 

http://www.downsizinggovernment.org

 

This could be a good exercise for Scouts in Cit Nation - what would you cut? Make them approach each cut from an Oath and Law perspective along with the Constitution.

 

A flip side is to ask them what things could the government do? For this debate, do they agree that there is a problem with people who have no access to affordable healthcare? How would they solve that? What is the obligation of the nation? Help educate the discussion. Show them the historical levels of deficit and debt (and PLEASE make sure that they know the difference).

 

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/debt_deficit_history

 

Then you can talk about historical taxation levels, and you can teach them about the EFFECTIVE tax rate (which is vastly different from initial rate). Lots of information there:

 

http://strata.oreilly.com/2013/01/us-tax-rates-visualization.html

 

If you want to get deeper, you can overlay these numbers with party control of the House, Senate and Presidency and try to find a pattern, anywhere.

 

DigitalScout, yes there are wretched places in the world. I LIVE in the South! But I'd point out that Tijuana is a city, not a country. And the phrase 'federal assistance' seems to have become a euphemism for the 'tooth fairy' or 'money tree' from which services are free and without further obligation. They are not. Someone IS paying for all that.

 

Horizon, the way to break the cycle you describe is to take those 'games' away from the politicians and put personal responsibility back into society. Give people full freedom to make their own personal choices and stop taking from them to create political interest groups using 'government benefits'. Do that and there will be extra income for individuals and THEN the market and competitive forces will correct the outrageous costs you quote. Yes, some people will make bad choices. And they will suffer the consequences. Why shouldn't they?

[King Ding Dong 540]

To try to make this a bit more Scouting again (a few of you seem to forgetting the Oath and Law in your interactions)...

 

If we want to balance the books, then you have to either increase revenue or cut spending. If you want to play with spending, CATO has put some information on a site:

 

http://www.downsizinggovernment.org

 

This could be a good exercise for Scouts in Cit Nation - what would you cut? Make them approach each cut from an Oath and Law perspective along with the Constitution.

 

A flip side is to ask them what things could the government do? For this debate, do they agree that there is a problem with people who have no access to affordable healthcare? How would they solve that? What is the obligation of the nation? Help educate the discussion. Show them the historical levels of deficit and debt (and PLEASE make sure that they know the difference).

 

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/debt_deficit_history

 

Then you can talk about historical taxation levels, and you can teach them about the EFFECTIVE tax rate (which is vastly different from initial rate). Lots of information there:

 

http://strata.oreilly.com/2013/01/us-tax-rates-visualization.html

 

If you want to get deeper, you can overlay these numbers with party control of the House, Senate and Presidency and try to find a pattern, anywhere.

 

Pack how do we square that with the 2nd amendment and a culture where anyone can get a weapon with no questions asked ? People will get gunned down in the parking lot of Safeway for a loaf of bread.

[packsaddle 753]

To try to make this a bit more Scouting again (a few of you seem to forgetting the Oath and Law in your interactions)...

 

If we want to balance the books, then you have to either increase revenue or cut spending. If you want to play with spending, CATO has put some information on a site:

 

http://www.downsizinggovernment.org

 

This could be a good exercise for Scouts in Cit Nation - what would you cut? Make them approach each cut from an Oath and Law perspective along with the Constitution.

 

A flip side is to ask them what things could the government do? For this debate, do they agree that there is a problem with people who have no access to affordable healthcare? How would they solve that? What is the obligation of the nation? Help educate the discussion. Show them the historical levels of deficit and debt (and PLEASE make sure that they know the difference).

 

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/debt_deficit_history

 

Then you can talk about historical taxation levels, and you can teach them about the EFFECTIVE tax rate (which is vastly different from initial rate). Lots of information there:

 

http://strata.oreilly.com/2013/01/us-tax-rates-visualization.html

 

If you want to get deeper, you can overlay these numbers with party control of the House, Senate and Presidency and try to find a pattern, anywhere.

 

KDD, that is pure, wild speculation. Safeway is merely the trough to which the cattle come for food. Cattle are unconscious of the actual source of the food but we don't have to 'be' cattle in this case. Therefore if it scares you that much, bake your own. Better yet, take the opportunity to start your own bakery and take control of the situation and make some profit to boot. Enough entrepreneurs like you will decrease the incentive for people to exercise their 2nd amendment right to kill their fellow citizens over bread.

[Stosh 3452]

There are probably very few Democrats who are completely unwilling to compromise on ACA - are they' date=' too, "extremist ideologues"? [/quote']

Why should the Democrats compromise on a bill that was already written into law? It's a done deal. That's like the Patriots trying to negotiate the Superbowl victory after they were beaten by the Giants. Game over, move on. The majority of Americans support the ACA and want the shutdown to end. I'm sorry that a minority of people disagree but that's how democracy works.

 

Again' date=' that the ACA is the law of the land, for now, does not at all imply that it can't be debated, defunded, revoked, etc. It wasn't that long ago (1974-1995) that a 55 mph speed limit was "the law of the land."[/quote']

​41 House bills to repeal ACA have been debated, voted on and defeated. That's democracy in action. They can revisit repealing ACA in a new Congress/Senate/President in a few years but it's extremely shortsighted and foolish to think that Obama will sign a bill that would make major changes to his presidency's keystone legislation. The Republicans should stop wasting everyone's time.

OR.... it isn't producing what was promised and it isn't just a few who got whipped into a frenzy, but everyone getting a hit in the pocketbook, losing their benefits/hours, and even some losing their promised keep-your-doctor-of-choice and ending up with a high premium, no benefits, government sponsored/directed process. People are beginning to see the "benefits" of the program and they aren't really all that happy, but egos and politics don't allow for any "maybe this wasn't such a good idea" kinds of discussions to either correct or remove the problem.

 

Stosh

[Stosh 3452]

To try to make this a bit more Scouting again (a few of you seem to forgetting the Oath and Law in your interactions)...

 

If we want to balance the books, then you have to either increase revenue or cut spending. If you want to play with spending, CATO has put some information on a site:

 

http://www.downsizinggovernment.org

 

This could be a good exercise for Scouts in Cit Nation - what would you cut? Make them approach each cut from an Oath and Law perspective along with the Constitution.

 

A flip side is to ask them what things could the government do? For this debate, do they agree that there is a problem with people who have no access to affordable healthcare? How would they solve that? What is the obligation of the nation? Help educate the discussion. Show them the historical levels of deficit and debt (and PLEASE make sure that they know the difference).

 

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/debt_deficit_history

 

Then you can talk about historical taxation levels, and you can teach them about the EFFECTIVE tax rate (which is vastly different from initial rate). Lots of information there:

 

http://strata.oreilly.com/2013/01/us-tax-rates-visualization.html

 

If you want to get deeper, you can overlay these numbers with party control of the House, Senate and Presidency and try to find a pattern, anywhere.

 

At least people will have a choice now to either stand there and get shot or make an attempt to defend themselves. And automatically getting a gun is not the norm anymore. Yes, I can get a gun and I can get a permit, but the paperwork, waiting periods, etc. all make the process difficult. Meanwhile, the criminal steals a gun, has immediate access to the Safeway parking lot and you get shot over a loaf of bread waiting for your paperwork to clear. The law-abiding citizen always seem to end up on the short end of the stick.

 

While I never want to be put in a position of having to defend myself, I sure hope I never have to just stand there and die or watch my wife die because of some government bureaucracy.

 

Stosh

[DigitalScout 75]

To try to make this a bit more Scouting again (a few of you seem to forgetting the Oath and Law in your interactions)...

 

If we want to balance the books, then you have to either increase revenue or cut spending. If you want to play with spending, CATO has put some information on a site:

 

http://www.downsizinggovernment.org

 

This could be a good exercise for Scouts in Cit Nation - what would you cut? Make them approach each cut from an Oath and Law perspective along with the Constitution.

 

A flip side is to ask them what things could the government do? For this debate, do they agree that there is a problem with people who have no access to affordable healthcare? How would they solve that? What is the obligation of the nation? Help educate the discussion. Show them the historical levels of deficit and debt (and PLEASE make sure that they know the difference).

 

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/debt_deficit_history

 

Then you can talk about historical taxation levels, and you can teach them about the EFFECTIVE tax rate (which is vastly different from initial rate). Lots of information there:

 

http://strata.oreilly.com/2013/01/us-tax-rates-visualization.html

 

If you want to get deeper, you can overlay these numbers with party control of the House, Senate and Presidency and try to find a pattern, anywhere.

 

By carrying a gun, you increase your chances of being shot your assailant by 350%. You are better off designing your life to prevent a crime rather than being forced into the position of killing another person or get into a gunfight in your living room where your family can be shot in the crossfire. For example: get a dog (German Shepherd, not chihuahua), exterior flood lights or motion-activated lights, rose bushes below windows, an alarm system, etc.