Are Scouts receiving merit badges that are not earned?

[Basementdweller 608]

I still haven't figured out how 15 year olds can BE merit badge counselors at camp. Is there some small print codicil which permits other scouts to be merit badge counselors at summer camps?

There is some national find print.....It says that they can be a merit badge councilor under the supervision of..........

 

Well we all know how that works.

[Basementdweller 608]

Our troop will not countenance any glossing over of requirements. Boys come home with partials. We're fine with that. Cloudy all week? Nobody earns Astronomy. Too much lightning? Nobody earns Lifesaving.

That happened to us this year....too much lightning......no biggy.

[Basementdweller 608]

Well brettw777 time to get involved and make sure scouts are not short changed. First start small as the model MBC. Set expectations, in writing, up front with scouts and their PARENTS.

 

My name is Bret Maverick, you have asked me to be your MBC for nnnn and here is what we will be doing and what I expect from you. Define your availability. Set class size. Summarize classes and state there will be 3,4,6 meetings to meet the merit badge requirements. You will not accept partials from summer camp, merit badge universities as you need to be sure the scout has actually done the work. Make it clear this is your class not the SM or Council, don't like it, then seek another MBC.

Scouts

1. Read the merit badge pamphlet

2. Arrive on time, in uniform with merit badge pamphlet

3. No prior work accepted, clock starts at first class.

4. This is a hands-on brain-on lab, not a sit on yer butt tune-out class.

5. parents can attend, but not interfere

6. Give me your best work because that is what I am giving you.

...

Fail to do the above and I will provide a partial merit badge card as a parting gift.

Succeed and you EARN Merit Badge nnnn

Welcome to Merit Badge nnnn.

 

The hardest part is dealing with parents whose expectations have been lowered by Council merit badge camps, District merit badge colleges, and yes Cub Scouts. To them, paying $ and attending guarantees a merit badge. Expect parents and scouts to find and promote these quick and easy paths. This is where you need a SM with a pair to say NO. Hey another volunteer opportunity. Don't get discouraged if your class is just your son and his buddy.

 

Step 2: Ask like minded adults to help you with your merit badge classes and hopefully plant a seed that they become merit badge counselors too.

 

My $0.02,

Send the parents that want to help their son answer questions to the end of the table.......Or the next time it happens to me I will issue mom a merit badge card and not the scout.

[duckfoot 80]

These merit badge days are the byproduct of the instant gratification world we live in....go spend all day somewhere, you better have something to show for it at the end...partial? not good enough.

That would be one solution though, nobody gets signed off at the fair or camp, have everyone come back with a partial and have them meet with a counselor when you get back to sign off complete.

[moosetracker 132]

Well brettw777 time to get involved and make sure scouts are not short changed. First start small as the model MBC. Set expectations, in writing, up front with scouts and their PARENTS.

 

My name is Bret Maverick, you have asked me to be your MBC for nnnn and here is what we will be doing and what I expect from you. Define your availability. Set class size. Summarize classes and state there will be 3,4,6 meetings to meet the merit badge requirements. You will not accept partials from summer camp, merit badge universities as you need to be sure the scout has actually done the work. Make it clear this is your class not the SM or Council, don't like it, then seek another MBC.

Scouts

1. Read the merit badge pamphlet

2. Arrive on time, in uniform with merit badge pamphlet

3. No prior work accepted, clock starts at first class.

4. This is a hands-on brain-on lab, not a sit on yer butt tune-out class.

5. parents can attend, but not interfere

6. Give me your best work because that is what I am giving you.

...

Fail to do the above and I will provide a partial merit badge card as a parting gift.

Succeed and you EARN Merit Badge nnnn

Welcome to Merit Badge nnnn.

 

The hardest part is dealing with parents whose expectations have been lowered by Council merit badge camps, District merit badge colleges, and yes Cub Scouts. To them, paying $ and attending guarantees a merit badge. Expect parents and scouts to find and promote these quick and easy paths. This is where you need a SM with a pair to say NO. Hey another volunteer opportunity. Don't get discouraged if your class is just your son and his buddy.

 

Step 2: Ask like minded adults to help you with your merit badge classes and hopefully plant a seed that they become merit badge counselors too.

 

My $0.02,

Some of that you may want to explain to the scout in order for them to decide if they want to accept you for their MBC or not. I have may scouts who come to me to finish up partials they got from camp.. Our camp does not short change and hands out partials. It is your perogative if you will not accept work from a partial.. It is their perogitive to find an MBC who will.

[RememberSchiff 3661]

These merit badge days are the byproduct of the instant gratification world we live in....go spend all day somewhere, you better have something to show for it at the end...partial? not good enough.

That would be one solution though, nobody gets signed off at the fair or camp, have everyone come back with a partial and have them meet with a counselor when you get back to sign off complete.

Long ago, when I attended summer camp as a scout, partials were the norm as few could pass Lifesaving, Rowing, Marksmanship, Archery,... in a week. It was commonly accepted, that a scout would have to come back for another week, or next summer, or contact a counselor to finish up. Maybe if we returned "to those thrilling days of yesterday", we would have more skilled scouts and summer camp reservations.

[pcola 24]

If there are adults in our troop that can be MB Counselors, we have "Field Days", where the scouts come and work on finishing, or redoing a lot of the requirements. We also use campouts to provide an opportunity to finish up these loose ends - it helps make a good campout sometimes. As a scoutmaster, I may not have final authority over the MB process, but I can help facilitate it personally, or provide the opportunity. Reaching out to the community: professionals, colleges, and other organizations to help may require extra effort, but the relationships it develops really makes a difference in making scouting a greater experience. Also, having the scouts associating with other individuals increases their view of the world. It increases ambition, interpersonal skills, and knowledge.

 

Specific examples include: Outdoor Program at the local university for Climbing, Survival Skills, and Cycling. ROTC program for orienteering. Professional Surveyor for Surveying. Engineers for Pulp and Paper. Chemistry Grad Students for Chemistry. Many organizations are always looking for service hours also.

 

Some may say that this is the responsibility of the scouts, but we are there to facilitate the program for their sakes. And to conclude, the scouts will start using and even developing relationships with other people in the community.

[Eagledad 2777]

SMs actually have full control of all the processes in the program, including the MB program. A big problem for troops is councils and districts short cut the process to make it easier to run large groups of scouts through the system. They don't require a scout to ask the SM for a blue card, call a counselor to set up meetings and get personal information that is required for the blue card. They shorten the process so that a scout just shows up for class and will likely walk out with most requirements completed without even opening the book. Like scouts learning from older scout role models, unit leaders learn habits (good and BAD) from district and council activities modeled in front of them. If unit leaders don't read the manuals (90% don't), they never know they are doing it wrong. Units can modify the process for summer camps and MB Fairs to make the scouts follow the BSA guidelines. The adults can and should audit the counselors as scouts progress with the badges. Educate your scouts why you require them to use the proper procedures and you will find them doing the quality control for you. Our scouts got to where they didnt waste their time at our district MB fairs because the counseling was so bad. You can change the system, our troop did. First start by doing your own counselor training. Real training that teaches the BSA published guidelines for the scouts, unit adult leaders, and counselors. Then figure out how to use those guidelines even when they aren't required like summer camps. The thing is there aren't really any bad guys here, it's just bad habits that were developed slowly over time. Long story short, our troop eventually was recognized for our quality program and was asked to do MB Counselor training for the whole district. District eventually took over the training using our syllabus. That happened over several years, but it started by one troop deciding to buck the system and follow BSA policies and guidelines. You see, scouts and adults want to do things right, they just need to know what right is. Brett, this may be a good place for you to step in and make a difference. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

[RememberSchiff 3661]

If there are adults in our troop that can be MB Counselors, we have "Field Days", where the scouts come and work on finishing, or redoing a lot of the requirements. We also use campouts to provide an opportunity to finish up these loose ends - it helps make a good campout sometimes. As a scoutmaster, I may not have final authority over the MB process, but I can help facilitate it personally, or provide the opportunity. Reaching out to the community: professionals, colleges, and other organizations to help may require extra effort, but the relationships it develops really makes a difference in making scouting a greater experience. Also, having the scouts associating with other individuals increases their view of the world. It increases ambition, interpersonal skills, and knowledge.

 

Specific examples include: Outdoor Program at the local university for Climbing, Survival Skills, and Cycling. ROTC program for orienteering. Professional Surveyor for Surveying. Engineers for Pulp and Paper. Chemistry Grad Students for Chemistry. Many organizations are always looking for service hours also.

 

Some may say that this is the responsibility of the scouts, but we are there to facilitate the program for their sakes. And to conclude, the scouts will start using and even developing relationships with other people in the community.

It is the scout's responsibility, that is part of the merit badge process. "Facilitating" with merit badge universities and merit badge camporees/campouts short changes scouts in this experience with associating with adults.

From http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/MBCounselorGuide.aspx

 

"A Scout first expresses an interest in a particular merit badge by letting his unit leader know. To get him started, the leader gives him a signed Application for Merit Badge (blue card) along with the name and contact information for a district/council approved merit badge counselor. The Scout then contacts the merit badge counselor and makes an appointment. The merit badge counselor sets a date and time to meet with the Scout and his buddy, and may suggest the Scout bring the merit badge pamphlet along with the blue card."

 

P.S. Many "can be MB Counselors" but one needs to "really be (registered) MB Counselor" to sign the blue card.

[Twocubdad 665]

I don't buy that SMs don't have any control over the MB process. Bunk. If I knew a camp (or any other) MB counselor were cutting corners that wide, a) I'd be climbing the camp program director's clock and , b) we would not award the badge. I know that's not BSA policy, but sue me.

 

If things are as bad as your OP makes it sound, it's because the leaders in your son's unit are complicit in allowing it to happen at this scale.

 

I would do two things. First, I'd talk to your son. This is an opportunity for a life lesson the value of actually earning things. Here's your chance to guide him to do the right thing. Ideally, he may decide to return the badges to the Scoutmaster and explain to him how/why he didn't earn them. I would mark if up as a win if your son doesn't want to make a big deal, decides to keep the badges but complete the work to the best of his ability.

 

In either event, you need to close the loop with the troop leadership and have conversation with them about standards (advancement and otherwise) and the lessons they are teaching the scouts. The mission of the BSA is to teach young people to make ethical decisions by applying the Scout Oath and Law. Doesn't sound as if your troop is doing a very good job of that. If the leaders aren't horrified to learn of the state of their advancement program AND don't make immediate changes to fix things, then change troops.

Good for your son. He's doing the right thing. At this point I'd wait to see what comes of the UC's visit with the troop. There may come a time during the ensuing conversations where it would be appropriate for you son to state his case. Scoutmaster: "Everyone this troop absolutely earned every MB the received! Who here doesn't think they honestly earned a MB?" (Cue Brett Jr.)

 

But if not, I think you will be surprised about what you and your son can learn together. Most MBs are written on a middle school level. Get the MB book and read through it. There used to be plans for electric motors there. I remember at my very first troop meeting in 1969 everyone was building electric motors out of iron nails and copper wire. I was bummed because that was the last night they were working on them and it was too late for me to build one. Sounds like a fun rainy Saturday afternoon for you and your son in the garage. The two of you working together, doing a little head scratching here and there all in an effort to solve an ethical issue of someone else's doing isn't a bad thing. No, it's not the usual way of him earning a MB, but that ship has already sailed.

[pcola 24]

If there are adults in our troop that can be MB Counselors, we have "Field Days", where the scouts come and work on finishing, or redoing a lot of the requirements. We also use campouts to provide an opportunity to finish up these loose ends - it helps make a good campout sometimes. As a scoutmaster, I may not have final authority over the MB process, but I can help facilitate it personally, or provide the opportunity. Reaching out to the community: professionals, colleges, and other organizations to help may require extra effort, but the relationships it develops really makes a difference in making scouting a greater experience. Also, having the scouts associating with other individuals increases their view of the world. It increases ambition, interpersonal skills, and knowledge.

 

Specific examples include: Outdoor Program at the local university for Climbing, Survival Skills, and Cycling. ROTC program for orienteering. Professional Surveyor for Surveying. Engineers for Pulp and Paper. Chemistry Grad Students for Chemistry. Many organizations are always looking for service hours also.

 

Some may say that this is the responsibility of the scouts, but we are there to facilitate the program for their sakes. And to conclude, the scouts will start using and even developing relationships with other people in the community.

So where do these MB counselors come from? Do they volunteer on their own? Do you really think each district has plenty of able willing adults in a ready made pool? Wouldn't you think that finding counselors for various MBs originates from the scouts? Do you want to settle on mediocre MB counselors, when there can be more inspiring ones out there? Why have adult leaders if the scouts can "facilitate" everything on their own? As adult leaders we are their to help them, not do it for them. I dislike the MB mills and canned programs, that is why I am always on the lookout for people that can give the scouts an added dimension to the subjects. And since the scouts are responsible for activities, they are the ones that set up these activities. I have met too many adult leaders that just let the scouts sink or swim. True Darwinism - survival of the fittest. I choose to help my scouts learn and grow, not get discouraged and quit. Not everyone is an alpha in life.

[RememberSchiff 3661]

If there are adults in our troop that can be MB Counselors, we have "Field Days", where the scouts come and work on finishing, or redoing a lot of the requirements. We also use campouts to provide an opportunity to finish up these loose ends - it helps make a good campout sometimes. As a scoutmaster, I may not have final authority over the MB process, but I can help facilitate it personally, or provide the opportunity. Reaching out to the community: professionals, colleges, and other organizations to help may require extra effort, but the relationships it develops really makes a difference in making scouting a greater experience. Also, having the scouts associating with other individuals increases their view of the world. It increases ambition, interpersonal skills, and knowledge.

 

Specific examples include: Outdoor Program at the local university for Climbing, Survival Skills, and Cycling. ROTC program for orienteering. Professional Surveyor for Surveying. Engineers for Pulp and Paper. Chemistry Grad Students for Chemistry. Many organizations are always looking for service hours also.

 

Some may say that this is the responsibility of the scouts, but we are there to facilitate the program for their sakes. And to conclude, the scouts will start using and even developing relationships with other people in the community.

Sign these people up as legit MBC or register yourself as sort of a proxy MBC - the scout contacts you and you outsource to someone else but still attend all meetings. Either way, the signature on the card has to be a legit MBC at time of signature.

 

Yeah the merit badge system is broken but we scout on and deliver the promise of Scouting - teaching scouts to become men step by step.

[christineka 35]

We have this problem in cub scouts. I have been counseling my own son to be honest, so he does not accept awards he has not earned. I need to work with the other boys in my den on this as well. Hopefully, when they move up to boy scouts, they will have the integrity to refuse badges they have not earned. I suspect the awarding of unearned merit badges is happening in the church troop. (Very, very likely)

[brettw777 10]

Moosetracker' date=' I cannot imagine why, if there were an online database of merit badge counselors, they would not even want their email addresses revealed. That makes no sense to me. If a MBC does not want to be contacted, what is the point of him being a MBC?[/quote']

So, I take it that if you were a merit badge counselor you would have no problem with putting your email address out there for the ENTIRE WORLD to see, and send junk mail and/or porn to?

 

Merit badge counselors CAN be contacted. It is up to the District/Council Advancement Committee to keep a list of current counselors. Some will publish it openly on their District/Council website. Some have a "locked" space on the website that only folks with the correct code can access. Some only have hard copies that can only be gotten from the Council offices by the unit leader (Scoutmaster).

 

I suggest you contact the Advancement Chair for your District (or Council of the DAC does not help) and ask for names of counselors for the incorrectly completed summer camp merit badges. I would explain the reason behind your request as well. Better yet, because they might be leery about giving that information to a parent (not knowing if the parent is trying to pull something shady or not), and because it really is not the parents who should be looking for, and contacting counselors, have your SON, the Scout, contact his District Advancement Chair with the request, and explanation.

 

Just a note - Nowhere, in any merit badge, is there a requirement that the Scout MEMORIZE the material in the merit badge so that he can spit it out verbatim a year later. That is not how it works.

 

BSA requires the Scout to complete the merit badge requirements - AS WRITTEN. NO MORE - NO LESS.

 

I would have no problem giving my email address out to anyone. I already get spam but my hotmail filter gets rid of most of it before I even see it. Also, email addresses listed on a Scout website could easily be disguised to avoid spammers as in bobwhite at yahoo dot com.

 

Also, I am aware that there is not a requirement for boys to be able to recite verbatim his merit badge material a year or anytime after receiving the merit badge. I only mentioned it because I believe that many boys cannot tell much of anything about what they quickly crammed into their brain just a few weeks or months later after his merit badge class. I think it is up to the boy and his parents to make sure he LEARNS the material and does not temporarily memorize it. I guess I am suggesting that boys self police themselves on this. The last thing you want is a surgeon operating on your brain who temporarily memorized his med school curriculum, amen? You want him to know it well enough to teach it. Many merit badges worn by these boys are worthless to the boy. When an Eagle Scout cannot even tell my son how to tie a rope around a tripod group of sticks for the simple camp gadget, something is really wrong.

[moosetracker 132]

Moosetracker' date=' I cannot imagine why, if there were an online database of merit badge counselors, they would not even want their email addresses revealed. That makes no sense to me. If a MBC does not want to be contacted, what is the point of him being a MBC?[/quote']

So, I take it that if you were a merit badge counselor you would have no problem with putting your email address out there for the ENTIRE WORLD to see, and send junk mail and/or porn to?

 

Merit badge counselors CAN be contacted. It is up to the District/Council Advancement Committee to keep a list of current counselors. Some will publish it openly on their District/Council website. Some have a "locked" space on the website that only folks with the correct code can access. Some only have hard copies that can only be gotten from the Council offices by the unit leader (Scoutmaster).

 

I suggest you contact the Advancement Chair for your District (or Council of the DAC does not help) and ask for names of counselors for the incorrectly completed summer camp merit badges. I would explain the reason behind your request as well. Better yet, because they might be leery about giving that information to a parent (not knowing if the parent is trying to pull something shady or not), and because it really is not the parents who should be looking for, and contacting counselors, have your SON, the Scout, contact his District Advancement Chair with the request, and explanation.

 

Just a note - Nowhere, in any merit badge, is there a requirement that the Scout MEMORIZE the material in the merit badge so that he can spit it out verbatim a year later. That is not how it works.

 

BSA requires the Scout to complete the merit badge requirements - AS WRITTEN. NO MORE - NO LESS.

 

I would have no problem giving my email address out to anyone. I already get spam but my hotmail filter gets rid of most of it before I even see it. Also, email addresses listed on a Scout website could easily be disguised to avoid spammers as in bobwhite at yahoo dot com.

 

Also, I am aware that there is not a requirement for boys to be able to recite verbatim his merit badge material a year or anytime after receiving the merit badge. I only mentioned it because I believe that many boys cannot tell much of anything about what they quickly crammed into their brain just a few weeks or months later after his merit badge class. I think it is up to the boy and his parents to make sure he LEARNS the material and does not temporarily memorize it. I guess I am suggesting that boys self police themselves on this. The last thing you want is a surgeon operating on your brain who temporarily memorized his med school curriculum, amen? You want him to know it well enough to teach it. Many merit badges worn by these boys are worthless to the boy. When an Eagle Scout cannot even tell my son how to tie a rope around a tripod group of sticks for the simple camp gadget, something is really wrong.

It basically is how you look at what a meritbadge is all about.. The purpose is not for the scout to really learn the meritbadge, as he is expected to with scoutcraft.. You hope some of the parts of a meritbadge that go hand-in-hand with the scoutcraft or when the MB is totally about scoutcraft like First aid or Camping will improve or enhance that knowledge.. Otherwise the purpose of the meritbadge is simply to introduce the scout to different subject matters, if the meritbadge awakes a new found interest, then the scout on his own will continue down the road.. The requirements shouldn't be skimped on because the scout does not get the full introduction on the subject matter.. But, they shouldn't be added to because it is only an introduction to the subject matter.