Scout "Too Young" to be an Eagle?

[Basementdweller 608]

Give me a motivated 13-year-old Eagle over an 18th-Birthday Eagle any day.

Who knows....Scout son turned down his nomination for SPL tonight...... Having too much fun to be responsible right now... Fall fellowship is in a couple of weeks and we are working two weekends in the end of october at the cub spook o ree.

[Scouter99 265]

As has recently occurred in our council, a parent has worked the system through legal technicalities, threats, and troop and district changing until he got what he wanted, his eleven year old passed through. And, of course, even though he passed, the whole thing has simply left an acid pall over the proceedings. The boy has a lot of potential, and hopefully may yet prove himself; but I have a feeling even he realizes he really should not have passed; but he is too young to stand up to the parental intrigue. Bad example for the boy, and even a worse example for those that know him. It started in cubs where he somehow "earned" every loop and pin available, even though none of the other boys even knew the opportunity was being offered for many of them, and they were last minute by the, you guessed it, parental "leader". Moved into a troop at the absolute minimum age, then transferred soon afterwards when the leadership said he had not satisfactorily met certain requirements and that the "parent was not authorized to sign off stuff like in cubs". Buffaloed the new unit for a few months, then it again hit the fan, eventually resulting in parental legal threats and moving to another unit in a neighboring district. Again worked the system and got a board. Current unit had developed huge concerns, but nobody was willing to stand up to the realities of what went on and force a final challenge at National. Do not make waves is the norm once these things reach a certain stage.

 

The really sad thing is that the boy himself likely would have made it on his own and actually felt good about it; but you can tell he is embarrassed when confronted by those that tried to challenge him early on to "earn" rather than just get blanks signed and then forget, and to prove himself with his peers. Now he has little or no respect even from them. Still, he could grow into it, assuming he stays around long enough with his current peer level issues and the bad feelings generated on the adult level, he will have learned a really good life lesson. Of course, he will have to be able to confront the poor parental example to succeed. One can hope.

Probably will hear about it soon. It just occurred recently and found out it was approved just last week. The goal was specific; to be the youngest ever. Soooo.

Then that will be a fun Bryan blog to troll.

[click23 66]

No matter how we think of the Eagle rank and the elevated esteem that we associate with it, the Eagle rank is nothing more than a set of requirements. Once the requirements have been, nothing more nothing less, the young man has earned the rank.

[Tim in NJ 19]

Interesting discussion. I have a 12 year son who is a Star scout and is on track to make Life Scout in January. He got Star 2 days before he turned 12. At the pace that "He" has set for himself it is entirely feasible that he will "EARN" Eagle before or just after he turns 14. He is extremely motivated and is setting his own goals. While I am a leader in the troop I have never signed off on anything he has done and refuse to. I will likely have to on some merit badges as I am the only on in the troop who is a counselor for them but they will be done with a group of scouts rather than one on one so to avoid any concerns of favoritism.

 

Some seem to think a youngster of this age can't possibly have it together enough to earn Eagle the right way. He is motivated and is a straight A student. He plays on a travel soccer team and last year asked to take the course to get is reffing license. He is a grade 9 ref and works games on a weekly basis to earn his own money. He was given Historian as his POR and has begun a project of putting together the history of all the prior Eagles in the troop. He has contacted (with moms approval) and tracked down and received pictures of the Eagles going all the way back to 1972. He has been able to obtain pictures for over half the eagles so far. He went through the training class and became First Aid/CPR certified rather than just do the first aid merit badge. The bottom line is he is very ambitious and has a goal in mind and is working hard towards that. Thankfully the troop leadership see that and wont try any nonsense of holding him back due to their own preconceived notion of when a scout is old enough to be eagle.

 

Our troop has a couple more that will likely earn Eagle by 14 but we also have some that have turned in paperwork with only hours to spare.

 

In my opinion as long as the troop leadership is doing their job from the beginning while the scout is working his way towards Eagle then there should not be a question of whether he has Earned it or not.

lechwe: One of the defining and most useful features of the merit badge program as its designed is the challenge given to the scouts to initiate contact with the counselors. As designed, a scout would need to pick a badge to work on, request contact information, and pick up the phone to call an adult stranger with the intentions of asking for a very big favor. He would then need to take the initiative to find a buddy (fellow scout or otherwise) to attend the meeting with him and have the courage to actually go out and meet up with this unknown merit badge counselor. Honestly, its a lot to ask of most youths, and quite frankly its a stretch for quite a few adults I know. This is not a flaw of the merit badge system, but a design feature, since it pushes the scout to overcome these difficulties at a young age. By bypassing this process via summer camps, merit badge fairs, and internal troop counselors, you are shortchanging your son and the rest of his troop from this important experience. I'm not blaming you, since its obviously a common practice in your area, but this is exactly the portion of the potential of the program that BD is referring to. Of course, changing things to the way its designed will likely meet with plenty of resistance from other scouters plus parents, none of whom may be comfortable with the difficulty this places squarely onto the scout's shoulders.

 

I've been a registered merit badge counselor for six badges for 21 months now. In that time, I've had exactly one scout contact me from out-of-the-blue looking to work on a merit badge like the program is designed for. As difficult as the requirements were (Automotive Maintenance is not an easy badge for a 16/17 year old with no practical knowledge of car mechanics), I honestly feel like his actions in contacting me will probably have a longer lasting effect on his life years from now. If not, at least he'll know how to change a flat tire!

[Scouter99 265]

There is a difference between being an Eagle Scout and wearing a patch. There are Eagle Scouts who never got the patch' date=' and patch wearers who aren't Eagle Scouts. [/quote']

 

A mother once said this to me when she found out that I am not an Eagle Scout. I appreciated the sentiment, but, no, there are not Eagles who never got the patch. I made my choices, I live with them.

Mike Rowe takes on the issue in a similar way, but with a more grounded message: Never got your Eagle? "[You're] in excellent company . . . I've got two brothers, neither one of them made it to Eagle. My Bother Scott was a Star Scout and way leads on to way . . . one night at home . . . Scott had his first job working as a lifeguard . . . the son-of-a-gun saved a guy's life. . . More than anything I remember the section in Boys' Life, Scouts in Action . . . they weren't Eagle Scouts, they were Tenderfeet . . . it's not the award, it's action . . it's their mettle, not their medals."

 

We don't need to be Eagle Scouts to have been great scouts, or to be great adult leadership, nor do we need people to tell us we're some kind of spirit Eagles to somehow account for our good service. I hit Star, that's what I am, and I'm in good company.

[Scouter99 265]

There is a difference between being an Eagle Scout and wearing a patch. There are Eagle Scouts who never got the patch' date=' and patch wearers who aren't Eagle Scouts. [/quote']

 

A mother once said this to me when she found out that I am not an Eagle Scout. I appreciated the sentiment, but, no, there are not Eagles who never got the patch. I made my choices, I live with them.

Mike Rowe takes on the issue in a similar way, but with a more grounded message: Never got your Eagle? "[You're] in excellent company . . . I've got two brothers, neither one of them made it to Eagle. My Bother Scott was a Star Scout and way leads on to way . . . one night at home . . . Scott had his first job working as a lifeguard . . . the son-of-a-gun saved a guy's life. . . More than anything I remember the section in Boys' Life, Scouts in Action . . . they weren't Eagle Scouts, they were Tenderfeet . . . it's not the award, it's action . . it's their mettle, not their medals."

 

We don't need to be Eagle Scouts to have been great scouts, or to be great adult leadership, nor do we need people to tell us we're some kind of spirit Eagles to somehow account for our good service. I hit Star, that's what I am, and I'm in good company.

On second thought, I know at least one Eagle who "never got the patch" he cared so little that he never had his ECoH and never even came to any meeting post EBoR, so his patch, medal, letters, etc have been in a filing cabinet since the 90s.

[Basementdweller 608]

There is a difference between being an Eagle Scout and wearing a patch. There are Eagle Scouts who never got the patch' date=' and patch wearers who aren't Eagle Scouts. [/quote']

 

A mother once said this to me when she found out that I am not an Eagle Scout. I appreciated the sentiment, but, no, there are not Eagles who never got the patch. I made my choices, I live with them.

Mike Rowe takes on the issue in a similar way, but with a more grounded message: Never got your Eagle? "[You're] in excellent company . . . I've got two brothers, neither one of them made it to Eagle. My Bother Scott was a Star Scout and way leads on to way . . . one night at home . . . Scott had his first job working as a lifeguard . . . the son-of-a-gun saved a guy's life. . . More than anything I remember the section in Boys' Life, Scouts in Action . . . they weren't Eagle Scouts, they were Tenderfeet . . . it's not the award, it's action . . it's their mettle, not their medals."

 

We don't need to be Eagle Scouts to have been great scouts, or to be great adult leadership, nor do we need people to tell us we're some kind of spirit Eagles to somehow account for our good service. I hit Star, that's what I am, and I'm in good company.

There are several other posters that have reported the same thing regarding the ECOH. Some were boys who enlisted and off to boot camp others to college and others just not interested.

 

They earned it but simply didn't care about it.

[Basementdweller 608]

As long as all the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed and the boy has actually fulfilled the list of requirements, he technically is qualified to earn Eagle. That being said, he is going to be viewed by most people as a technical Eagle, right or wrong. An Eagle with an asterisk beside his name. He may be an Eagle, but he isn't old enough to staff camp. He isn't going to be tapped to serve on an NYLT course or be a course leader. He won't be considered a serious candidate if he were to run for Lodge Chief if he is in OA. Heck, depending on just how young we are talking here, he may not even be eligible to attend a High Adventure base. Etc., etc., etc. He doesn't have the time, breadth, depth and maturity that most people will expect of an Eagle. I never, ever want to squash a boy's desire or spirit. that being said, an SM needs to have a sit down with a boy's parents and the boy as well and have a long discussion. There is the destination.......and there is the journey. The journey is far more important to becoming an Eagle than the destination is. A good SM will channel the boy's ambitions back into the troop instead of simply obtaining a rank. A good SM will convince the boy of how very important the journey is in relation to the rank. Just my two cents.

That is a valid point about age.....He can't attend NYLT locally because he isn't old enough. He could have attended the Jamboree or Philmont yet.

 

Camp staff must be 14 or a 13 year old CIT for a single week.

[Kudu 186]

As long as all the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed and the boy has actually fulfilled the list of requirements, he technically is qualified to earn Eagle. That being said, he is going to be viewed by most people as a technical Eagle, right or wrong. An Eagle with an asterisk beside his name. He may be an Eagle, but he isn't old enough to staff camp. He isn't going to be tapped to serve on an NYLT course or be a course leader. He won't be considered a serious candidate if he were to run for Lodge Chief if he is in OA. Heck, depending on just how young we are talking here, he may not even be eligible to attend a High Adventure base. Etc., etc., etc. He doesn't have the time, breadth, depth and maturity that most people will expect of an Eagle. I never, ever want to squash a boy's desire or spirit. that being said, an SM needs to have a sit down with a boy's parents and the boy as well and have a long discussion. There is the destination.......and there is the journey. The journey is far more important to becoming an Eagle than the destination is. A good SM will channel the boy's ambitions back into the troop instead of simply obtaining a rank. A good SM will convince the boy of how very important the journey is in relation to the rank. Just my two cents.

So what do all of those age-restricted activities have in common?

 

1) By definition they are not based on merit.

[DuctTape 1230]

There is a difference between being an Eagle Scout and wearing a patch. There are Eagle Scouts who never got the patch' date=' and patch wearers who aren't Eagle Scouts. [/quote']

 

A mother once said this to me when she found out that I am not an Eagle Scout. I appreciated the sentiment, but, no, there are not Eagles who never got the patch. I made my choices, I live with them.

Mike Rowe takes on the issue in a similar way, but with a more grounded message: Never got your Eagle? "[You're] in excellent company . . . I've got two brothers, neither one of them made it to Eagle. My Bother Scott was a Star Scout and way leads on to way . . . one night at home . . . Scott had his first job working as a lifeguard . . . the son-of-a-gun saved a guy's life. . . More than anything I remember the section in Boys' Life, Scouts in Action . . . they weren't Eagle Scouts, they were Tenderfeet . . . it's not the award, it's action . . it's their mettle, not their medals."

 

We don't need to be Eagle Scouts to have been great scouts, or to be great adult leadership, nor do we need people to tell us we're some kind of spirit Eagles to somehow account for our good service. I hit Star, that's what I am, and I'm in good company.

I hope I didn't come across as providing accolades in an attempt to make someone feel better. My point was more about the many who never fulfilled the requirements but were just signed off . It isn't the scouts fault, it is the adults who subtracted from the requirements.

[Scouter99 265]

There is a difference between being an Eagle Scout and wearing a patch. There are Eagle Scouts who never got the patch' date=' and patch wearers who aren't Eagle Scouts. [/quote']

 

A mother once said this to me when she found out that I am not an Eagle Scout. I appreciated the sentiment, but, no, there are not Eagles who never got the patch. I made my choices, I live with them.

Mike Rowe takes on the issue in a similar way, but with a more grounded message: Never got your Eagle? "[You're] in excellent company . . . I've got two brothers, neither one of them made it to Eagle. My Bother Scott was a Star Scout and way leads on to way . . . one night at home . . . Scott had his first job working as a lifeguard . . . the son-of-a-gun saved a guy's life. . . More than anything I remember the section in Boys' Life, Scouts in Action . . . they weren't Eagle Scouts, they were Tenderfeet . . . it's not the award, it's action . . it's their mettle, not their medals."

 

We don't need to be Eagle Scouts to have been great scouts, or to be great adult leadership, nor do we need people to tell us we're some kind of spirit Eagles to somehow account for our good service. I hit Star, that's what I am, and I'm in good company.

Ah, my mistake, DuctTape. I thought that when you said there are "Eagle Scouts who never got the patch" I thought you were being sentimental in the vein of people who say things like "well, you're an Eagle at heart."

[Basementdweller 608]

We all know a Scouter who has Life for life syndrome.

 

The guy who missed Eagle for whatever reason and spends his Scouter career trying to make up for it.

[Scouter99 265]

We all know a Scouter who has Life for life syndrome.

 

The guy who missed Eagle for whatever reason and spends his Scouter career trying to make up for it.

 

Interestingly enough, adults could earn Eagle until like the 1930s or 40s.

For myself, it's not something I really think about. I didn't make it, big whoop. Adult Eagle Scouts as a group don't impress me at all, which probably makes it easier to not care.

Now, I was pretty pissed when I found out that it is not true that merit badge partials expire; my Scoutmaster lied to me and I could have been Life rather than Star if he had not, but again, oh well. It means I went and bought a copy of the Guide to Advancement and if I hear a lie like that now then I won't stand for it for the Scouts, because it's not too late for them.

[flwolf1109 10]

I am a Eagle Scout. I earned my Eagle at 16. I believe he is to youg...he has not experienced anything about scouting. I have been to a National Scout Jamboree, Philmont Scount Ranch in New Mexico, 7 years of summer camp, many Klondike Derby's, fall and spring camporees etc. I am also a member of the Order of the Arrow. What are his "Scouting" experiences besides bookwork?

[Old_OX_Eagle83 212]

This is always a big can of worms. My opinion is age is not important, but the maturity, and experience to grasp the lessons along the scout trail is. If scouts are truly mastering the skills along the way; truly filling office requirements, not just the holding office for a period of time; and truly owning the project from vision, to plan, to communication, to leadership, to evaluation, they are old enough.

 

Where the process fails is where requirements are signed off without performance and understanding. No, I'm not suggesting testing on BOR, I'm suggesting testing before requirements are signed off.

 

Pattern of good instruction: Week one: Skill is taught with EDGE. Week two: scouts perform skill, and are guided to mastery. Week three: Scouts are reminded that they will have to demonstrate the skills, without assistance next week. Week four: Skill is tested, and requirements signed off.

 

Fulfilling POR: 1. Given a written job description, which he discusses with SPL or ASPL (depending on office) upon election. At this point it's determined that he has a full understanding of all expectations, and knows who will provide guidance, if needed, and where to locate needed resources. 2. Leader is correctly trained at unit level. 3. Leader has monthly evaluations with SPL/ASPL, SM or designee sits in every other month. 4. Leadership team has a reflection a the terms end, followed by exit interviews, where it's determined if the POR holder met stated expectations. 5. If expectations were met, credit for POR is given.

 

Eagle is not a graduation from Boy Scouts, not every scout should, or will, earn it. Those young who choose to test themselves, and want to explore their full potential, tread the path to eagle.

 

Scouting is about the journey, not the destination.