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Basementdweller

Trail Life confused over who they are?????

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Well that might be a BSA reason not to consider him a good Leader, because aside from forcing everyone to abide by the conservatives view about homosexuals, you have the freedom to decide what Leaders by the traits your unit considers is or is not a good role model.. But, TLUSA is more tightly defining it to rule out any liberal thinking religions, and those religions that are not Christian or they just do not like.. So you can't go with the viewpoint of looking at the fact all religions view marriage and divorce differently, it has to be their way or the highway..

 

But, your right about it not being my organization, so who cares.. We were just guesstimating how large the group would get when your inclusiveness is very ,very limited and restrictive. In that light, how small their net is influenced by the meaning behind not having any physical relations with anyone out of wedlock, and lifelong commitment is part of the equation..

 

I do know conservative religions definitely frown on divorce.. Liberal religions are the ones that are more understanding.. Definitely a divorced person is a poor role model.. But, hey if you want to say whatever you are signing here has not meaning what-so-ever.. Everyone is welcome, then I don't understand what the reason was to leave the BSA over this issue.

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This is like watching a train wreck. TLUSA is going to have conversion therapy for gay Trailmen? For a group that wasn't going to be about sex, it seems they are neck-deep in it. From the Orlando Sentinel:

 

And while Trail Life will ban openly gay boys, if a child shows same-sex attraction or "gender confusion," he will be counseled by the church ministry along with his parents.

 

"Twenty-five percent of younger boys experience some sense of gender confusion or sexuality fluidity and
we will help guide him in a way that affirms his God-given physical biology
," said Trail Life board chairman John Stemberger, an Orlando attorney and Eagle Scout who fought the inclusion of gay scouts.

 

Source: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-09-17/features/os-trail-life-boy-scouts-20130917_1_gay-boys-gay-scouts-the-bsa

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Can you say lawsuit?? Quackery is never a good thing. Says with counseling with parents, hopefully that means allowing the parents the ability to tell them to take a flying leap before they every say one word to the child.. Even still, if the parents decide you made things decidedly worse, they can still sue.

 

Some thread a while back said LDS was thinking they would use BSA for this purpose if they by chance netted a likely candidate.. Hopefully they have rethought this as LDS only have LDS members in their scout programs 99.9% of the time, so they can just do it through the church without involving BSA in their eventual lawsuits..Because I find it hard to believe that that .01% of scouts who is not an LDS member would happen to be a homosexual youth.

 

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This is like watching a train wreck. TLUSA is going to have conversion therapy for gay Trailmen? For a group that wasn't going to be about sex, it seems they are neck-deep in it. From the Orlando Sentinel:

 

And while Trail Life will ban openly gay boys, if a child shows same-sex attraction or "gender confusion," he will be counseled by the church ministry along with his parents.

 

"Twenty-five percent of younger boys experience some sense of gender confusion or sexuality fluidity and
we will help guide him in a way that affirms his God-given physical biology
," said Trail Life board chairman John Stemberger, an Orlando attorney and Eagle Scout who fought the inclusion of gay scouts.

 

Source: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-09-17/features/os-trail-life-boy-scouts-20130917_1_gay-boys-gay-scouts-the-bsa

CalicoPenn, where are you when we need you?

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Can you say lawsuit?? Quackery is never a good thing. Says with counseling with parents, hopefully that means allowing the parents the ability to tell them to take a flying leap before they every say one word to the child.. Even still, if the parents decide you made things decidedly worse, they can still sue.

 

Some thread a while back said LDS was thinking they would use BSA for this purpose if they by chance netted a likely candidate.. Hopefully they have rethought this as LDS only have LDS members in their scout programs 99.9% of the time, so they can just do it through the church without involving BSA in their eventual lawsuits..Because I find it hard to believe that that .01% of scouts who is not an LDS member would happen to be a homosexual youth.

This is perhaps too close to the ground to be representative.

 

After the death of my son and my wife's self-imposed alienation, I found solace in the dance classes that we had been pursuing as a couple. Such that group classes are still my main form of a social life.

 

In one class is a homosexual whom I am very proud to call my friend. In listening to his conversations with our teacher (female) , there is a sizable homosexual population within the LDS. My ballroom instructor, very obviously gay, is also Mormon.

 

If the Mormon Church wants to deal with homosexuality, then it needs to do so on its own. BSA need not be involved.

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Well that might be a BSA reason not to consider him a good Leader, because aside from forcing everyone to abide by the conservatives view about homosexuals, you have the freedom to decide what Leaders by the traits your unit considers is or is not a good role model.. But, TLUSA is more tightly defining it to rule out any liberal thinking religions, and those religions that are not Christian or they just do not like.. So you can't go with the viewpoint of looking at the fact all religions view marriage and divorce differently, it has to be their way or the highway..

 

But, your right about it not being my organization, so who cares.. We were just guesstimating how large the group would get when your inclusiveness is very ,very limited and restrictive. In that light, how small their net is influenced by the meaning behind not having any physical relations with anyone out of wedlock, and lifelong commitment is part of the equation..

 

I do know conservative religions definitely frown on divorce.. Liberal religions are the ones that are more understanding.. Definitely a divorced person is a poor role model.. But, hey if you want to say whatever you are signing here has not meaning what-so-ever.. Everyone is welcome, then I don't understand what the reason was to leave the BSA over this issue.

Moose, they disagree with the decision, they disagree with the trajectory of the BSA, they disagree with you. So, they started their own program. I know it's hard for liberals to comprehend that many folks simply don't agree with the current trajectory of the BSA or the country for that matter. And they'll work to change it. I think I'm smelling a little fear in the air as the liberals realize they are now going to have to lead instead of just complain about needing change. You got it. What are you going to do with it now?

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Well just gotta share this. Locally we had one unit switching to faith based boys.......well guess who shows up to roundtable last night. Well since they are letting gays in as well no point in changing.....welcomed him back....bought him a coffee and cookie at break......there free.

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I believe the Pope wears one as well' date=' and I have seen photos of Cardinals in the Catholic church wearing them, though I suspect they don't call them yarmulkes.[/quote']

 

Right, it is called the "zuchetto". I believe it originated as a way for clergy to cover their tonsure (the part of the head that is shaven) and has remained even though the tonsure has been more or less done away with.

 

Now you can all go back to your regularly scheduled discussion of Trail Life. About which I will say, basically I agree with you. The only situation in which I could see a Jewish or Muslim or Buddhist boy wanting to join Trail Life is if he were friends with a bunch of other boys who were joining, and even then I would expect most parents to try to steer their son toward an organization that was equally welcoming to all religions. (I know that's what I would do if I still had a son of Scout age.)

 

With what I've seen from Trail Life USA, I can say that as a Catholic I would not want my sons to join. It seems like it is basically a Protestant organization.

Presbyterians under PCUSA are NOT having the national body push gay rights. We voted on it. The United States Constitution is, in many ways, modeled after the Presbyterians (the Minister who signed the Declaration? Witherspoon? Presbyterian). To get something passed, it must come from the States first (Presbyteries), then be voted on at the Congress (Assembly), then be RE-affirmed at the NEXT meeting of the Assembly. Yes, some congregations are leaving after losing two votes in a row. But that does NOT mean that this is pushed from above - this has been a long-fought battle for years. My wife was on Session back in the 80s when this was being debated. It just took until recently until it made it through the General Assembly. Here is the thing, individual churches STILL choose their minister (we don't appoint them, each congregation chooses theirs). So a conservative congregation is under zero requirement to accept a gay minister. Local control lives in the PCUSA.

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Trail Life will work out just fine and be great for some folks. It will grow but will likely remain small compared to the BSA. The BSA, on the other hand, has it's own issues and bloated professional bureauracy that takes the joy out of doing volunteer work. I will not miss FOS campaigns and always wondering why the money is being wasted.

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I believe the Pope wears one as well' date=' and I have seen photos of Cardinals in the Catholic church wearing them, though I suspect they don't call them yarmulkes.[/quote']

 

Right, it is called the "zuchetto". I believe it originated as a way for clergy to cover their tonsure (the part of the head that is shaven) and has remained even though the tonsure has been more or less done away with.

 

Now you can all go back to your regularly scheduled discussion of Trail Life. About which I will say, basically I agree with you. The only situation in which I could see a Jewish or Muslim or Buddhist boy wanting to join Trail Life is if he were friends with a bunch of other boys who were joining, and even then I would expect most parents to try to steer their son toward an organization that was equally welcoming to all religions. (I know that's what I would do if I still had a son of Scout age.)

 

With what I've seen from Trail Life USA, I can say that as a Catholic I would not want my sons to join. It seems like it is basically a Protestant organization.

Horizon: John Witherspoon, a New Jersey guy. (And a somewhat comic figure in the movie "1776", because everybody likes to make fun of New Jersey. But looking at his portrait on Wikipedia, he seems like a pretty serious person.)

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Trail Life will work out just fine and be great for some folks. It will grow but will likely remain small compared to the BSA. The BSA, on the other hand, has it's own issues and bloated professional bureauracy that takes the joy out of doing volunteer work. I will not miss FOS campaigns and always wondering why the money is being wasted.
Yeah, I recently left working at district level and I'm now doing UC work and will help with a training course if asked.. My husband keeps asking if I am going to District committee meetings for the last 3 months, I keep telling him No, I am no longer in District.. This Monday, he was asked if I would be interested in a position, he said he thought I would.. I had to email back and say "No thanks"..

 

I too got fed up with the professional bureauracy.. Or maybe for me it's more like back stabbing.. I liked our DE, he made some mistakes but he had passion for the job and cared about us volunteers.. He raised our district form last position to top position.. But, someone in Council wanted him gone because he didn't kiss a$$ enough around there.. So they set the bar too high to make.. I like the new DE, I hope he does well, but don't need to deal with that stuff during my free time.. I have enough of it in my 9-5 job.

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