Merit Badge Counselor youth protection

[King Ding Dong 540]

Thanks Tim in NJ. However, the Safe Scouting policy is still contradictory.

 

"One-on-one contact between adults and youth members prohibited. In any situation requiring a personal meeting, such as a Scoutmaster's conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths"

 

My read of this says the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults AND youth. This implies an adult is necessary and mandatory. It does not say "other adults OR youth".

 

Am I missing something?

I am not sure what you have in mind for a private setting but I would caution against closed doors in any circumstance.

[Scouter99 265]

Thanks Scouter99. Yes, agreed, I may be giving more weight to the word "and". However, my troop does not allow MB session without two adults (i.e. "two deep leadership") and I am trying to find something in writing that says MB counselor and just youth (and a minimum of two is possible at times) is acceptable for a merit badge class in a private setting at our unit's meeting place. I have not found it yet. I have found policy statements that are close but nothing definitive.

You have found it, you are simply ignoring it or don't understand it. The Guide to Safe Scouting is the definitive policy on your situation, and we have explained it amply. If that doesn't satisfy you, you and/or your troop are welcome to have your own requirements which are more strict than those in the GtSS, but understand that you are doing just that: Setting your own rule which is more strict.

The language in the GtSS is plain, and I have found that the only people who are confused by the two rules are people who have never read them.

The answer to your question is simple: You may coach a youth in the MB as long as you are in the presence of another adult, or another youth.

[Stosh 3452]

Thanks Scouter99. Yes, agreed, I may be giving more weight to the word "and". However, my troop does not allow MB session without two adults (i.e. "two deep leadership") and I am trying to find something in writing that says MB counselor and just youth (and a minimum of two is possible at times) is acceptable for a merit badge class in a private setting at our unit's meeting place. I have not found it yet. I have found policy statements that are close but nothing definitive.

You have found it, you are simply ignoring it or don't understand it. The Guide to Safe Scouting is the definitive policy on your situation, and we have explained it amply. If that doesn't satisfy you, you and/or your troop are welcome to have your own requirements which are more strict than those in the GtSS, but understand that you are doing just that: Setting your own rule which is more strict.

The language in the GtSS is plain, and I have found that the only people who are confused by the two rules are people who have never read them.

The answer to your question is simple: You may coach a youth in the MB as long as you are in the presence of another adult, or another youth.

Basically adults can do anything they want when it comes to G2SS. If some scout is ticked off at you, all they need do is accuse you and you are out of Scouts and into court. Now, if that's the risk one wishes to make, that's fine. We all live by the choices we make.

 

However, it is a GUIDE TO SAFE SCOUTING, that includes both the safety of the boys AND the adults. If push comes to shove, it is best to have as many witnesses as possible, both youth and adult.

 

If it comes down to your word against a kid's, you automatically lose. Plain and simple.

 

Stosh

[qwazse 4344]

If members in your troop are jittery about an arrangement, there's nothing in the G2SS that will change that.

You're not gonna find a "No 1-on-2 contact" rule, but on the other hand there is no "1-on-2 contact's just fine" rule either.

 

It's very rare that two kids manage to maintain a false accusation (as in the worst-case scenario that Stosh describes), but if you have adults who fear that very scenario there's no amount of writing the world that's gonna make that fear go away. You're stuck. Work with your people. Hopefully they won't cramp your style to the detriment of the boys.

[pcola 24]

In the Merit Badge Counselor's Guide: A Guide for Merit Badge Counseling , No. 34532, 2010, it states:

SCOUT BUDDY SYSTEM

A Scout must have a buddy with him at each meeting with a

merit badge counselor. A Scout’s buddy could be another

Scout, or be a parent or guardian, brother or sister, relative or

friend.

 

This is plain wording, and does not require any interpretation. I also have witnessed fanatical leadership and parents creating "additional" requirements for "Two-Deep Leadership" and find it pointless to try and educate them on this matter. It is more productive to appreciate their position, and either work with them, or decline involvement. That being said, I strive to be "above reproach" in all my interaction with the scouts.

[Hueymungus 73]

Why chance it. Use YPT and have two adults present/in-view with the Scouts.

[qwazse 4344]

Why chance it. Use YPT and have two adults present/in-view with the Scouts.

Why? Because the likelihood of any further risk minimization with that second adult is very very small, possibly to the point of being unproven. One can imagine scenarios where risk increases with that 2nd adult.

 

This is offset against program being denied to otherwise competent junior high and high school boys. One vital aspect of that program is teaching a boy how to safely interact with adult resources. Teaching a boy that he and a buddy cannot contact an adult in the absence of another adult undermines that aspect of the program.

 

I'm in favor of keeping monsters at bay. I'm not in favor of chasing ghosts.

[Hueymungus 73]

True...but when Lawyers come in they will split hairs on rules. It's also called grooming. Both Scouts could be getting groomed for all the wrong reasons. Things happen when people are not watching. Having an adult there is a barrier.

[ADCinNC 16]

http://www.scouter.com/forum/open-discussion-program/1854-merit-badge-counseling-and-two-deep-leadership

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/quiz-q.pdf

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/quiz-a.pdf

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/18-125.pdf

[Scouter99 265]

Why chance it. Use YPT and have two adults present/in-view with the Scouts.

You still don't get it: Two youth and 1 adult IS YPT. If a second adult can be conveniently found, there's no reason not to have one, but there is no reason or requirement to tear your hair out finding one.

[Scouter99 265]

Thanks Scouter99. Yes, agreed, I may be giving more weight to the word "and". However, my troop does not allow MB session without two adults (i.e. "two deep leadership") and I am trying to find something in writing that says MB counselor and just youth (and a minimum of two is possible at times) is acceptable for a merit badge class in a private setting at our unit's meeting place. I have not found it yet. I have found policy statements that are close but nothing definitive.

You have found it, you are simply ignoring it or don't understand it. The Guide to Safe Scouting is the definitive policy on your situation, and we have explained it amply. If that doesn't satisfy you, you and/or your troop are welcome to have your own requirements which are more strict than those in the GtSS, but understand that you are doing just that: Setting your own rule which is more strict.

The language in the GtSS is plain, and I have found that the only people who are confused by the two rules are people who have never read them.

The answer to your question is simple: You may coach a youth in the MB as long as you are in the presence of another adult, or another youth.

"If it comes down to your word against a kid's"

Sigh, which is exactly why a second youth is there. You didn't say anything different than what I just said.

[qwazse 4344]

True...but when Lawyers come in they will split hairs on rules. It's also called grooming. Both Scouts could be getting groomed for all the wrong reasons. Things happen when people are not watching. Having an adult there is a barrier.

Those of us in PA are willing to bet a divinsion I college football program that a 2nd adult does nothing to prevent lawers from tearing you apart for thinking that somehow that will prevent a skilled predator from grooming.

 

Get your head out of the sand and think about safety. Real safety. Boys are safer with a buddy.

[Hueymungus 73]

True...but when Lawyers come in they will split hairs on rules. It's also called grooming. Both Scouts could be getting groomed for all the wrong reasons. Things happen when people are not watching. Having an adult there is a barrier.

Yup..two adults and two scouts. There you go.

I give you this latest account of YPT Violation even when everyone was around...on camping trips.

http://www.oregonlive.com/washingtoncounty/index.ssf/2013/08/former_eagle_scout_pleads_guil.html#incart_m-rpt-2

 

Main point is, everyone has to be aware. Both Youth and Adults. Penn State is horror story and where other Adults did know and did nothing.

[Hueymungus 73]

http://www.scouter.com/forum/open-discussion-program/1854-merit-badge-counseling-and-two-deep-leadership

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/quiz-q.pdf

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/quiz-a.pdf

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/18-125.pdf

Thanks for the link to the older comments...Good points from years ago.

[Scouter99 265]

True...but when Lawyers come in they will split hairs on rules. It's also called grooming. Both Scouts could be getting groomed for all the wrong reasons. Things happen when people are not watching. Having an adult there is a barrier.

The perp was 16 when the assaults occurred on an 11, 12, and 13 yr old; that is not germane to the question at hand, as it is not a YPT violation.