The diference, if any, between Pack overnighter and Family camp?

[walk in the woods 888]

I generally agree with qwazse's answer. Family camping for our units is less program structured and more fellowship structured. Family camping isn't limited to Cub Scouts though. It's an option for all the program levels, at least according to the definitions in the GTSS. FWIW:

 

"Family camping is an outdoor experience, other than resident camping, that involves Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing program elements in overnight settings with two or more family members, including at least one BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their children, and Youth Protection policies apply."

 

Pack Overnighters are structured Cub Scout events. Not sure I agree with 00Eagle that Pack Overnighter's generally require 1:1 youth to parent attendance. The GTSS says " In most cases, each youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult." At one point my council issued guidance that the ratio of cubs:responsible adult should be no more than 3:1 or something like that. Can't find it right now though so maybe they rethought that publication.

 

That's my $0.02 or so. Sorry to be quoting the book and all.

That's cool.

[ADCinNC 16]

Info Scouter is on the right track. Pack camping is organized by a pack (duh) under Guide to Safe Scouting policies and the supervision of pack leadership. Family camping is run by a district or council. In addition to G2SS, there are camp accreditations standards it must meet, just like a day camp or resident camp.

 

From the new National Camp Standards:

 

family camp. Family camp is a council-organized overnight or longer event for Cub Scouts

(including Webelos Scouts) and their families that involves more than one pack where the council

provides the staffing and program. These events are often referred to as parent/pal, mom and me, or

adventure weekends. Family camps for Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, Venturers, or Sea Scouts may

also be accredited upon application of the council.

 

From the stand point of a family attending the event, it doesn't make much difference, only for the people running it.

Hi Twocubdad,

While you are correct about National Camp Standards for District or Council "Family Camp", "Family Camping" can also be outside of the purview of the district or council, such as any Pack Camping involving family members: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss03.aspx

[Sakitama 15]

My understanding is similiar to dc's.

 

I taught a camping/overnighter course at our U of S last year and this is how I seperated things and much more experienced scouters than I agreed. It still may not be the "legal" terms but they work.

 

Day trips: contained in one day no sleeping at the site

Overnighter: A specific program that is run by a third party for the scouts. e.g. sleep over at NASA. 1:1 parent and child, extra attendance rules may be imposed by the site, like age limits and attendance limits. All programming planning is done by the third party. Hardest problems I've had are alchohol. e.g. campout at the baseball stadium and dad's drinking beer. Rules say no, I agree with those rules but the dad's aren't happy with me.

Campout: Sleeping at a location either indoor or outdoor, all programming and planning is done by the pack. Campouts are open to entire families of scouters assuming the BSA rules are followed. e.g. No sleeping in tents with children not your own

We had a similar issue (drinking at Scout Night Baseball) and it seems to me, the DE waved it off as a grey area cause the facility allows drinking and it was their event. I'm like this though, if you're going to go to an event with scouts and interact with scouts, don't drink. Scout leaders, don't 'hang out' with folks who are drinking. Saw multiple times that night, a man carrying a beer in one hand running back and forth to the stands to hand popcorn, hotdogs, etc to a Cub. I'm assuming the man was his father or granddad, but as I said, it should be a Zero Tolerance policy. No drinking when you're out with the Cub Pack.

[Pack18Alex 92]

Info Scouter is on the right track. Pack camping is organized by a pack (duh) under Guide to Safe Scouting policies and the supervision of pack leadership. Family camping is run by a district or council. In addition to G2SS, there are camp accreditations standards it must meet, just like a day camp or resident camp.

 

From the new National Camp Standards:

 

family camp. Family camp is a council-organized overnight or longer event for Cub Scouts

(including Webelos Scouts) and their families that involves more than one pack where the council

provides the staffing and program. These events are often referred to as parent/pal, mom and me, or

adventure weekends. Family camps for Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts, Venturers, or Sea Scouts may

also be accredited upon application of the council.

 

From the stand point of a family attending the event, it doesn't make much difference, only for the people running it.

So there are three terms:

 

Pack Overnighter: camping with your family in your pack, at an approved location and tour plan

 

Family Camp: Council run program with multiple packs all participating. Multi-pack campouts must be approved by Council (and therefore Family Camp)

 

Family Camping: this is when BSA families affiliated with a Pack, Troop, or Crew camp.

 

As far as I can tell, Family Camping is almost the same thing as Pack Overnighter, except it's NOT limited to Packs (can include Troops/Crews). However, it looks like for Family Camping, you must include siblings, while a Pack Overnighter only includes siblings if you have age appropriate programming for them.

 

Cub Scouts can do:

Pack Overnighter

Family Camp

Family Camping

 

Troop can do:

Family Camp

Family Camping

Weekend Overnighters

 

So the Troop cannot include parents without siblings, and our regional Cuboree is a Family Camp program, whereas when your Pack Camps out, it's either an Overnighter or Family Camping, with apparently minor differences.

[dedkad 127]

So I guess the bigger question might be: Why do you care about the terminology, Woodward? Just get those boys out camping, whether it be with family or with den!

[Woodward 10]

Terminology has nothing to do with it. Definition and how someone interprets G2SS. Based on the response, and I want thank all who have chimed in. It sounds like others also have issues with members of a Pack treating a Pack organized camp out (overnighter) as recreation Family camping and since Cub Scouts is Family oriented, all Pack activities include Families. My question is how far do we go to encourage following G2SS guidelines and our BALOO training to insure the safety of all attending pack activities and what are the ramifications should a serious incident be relayed to Council and they discover that the Pack could not help these families understand the importance of the guidelines.

[Woodward 10]

So I guess the bigger question might be: Why do you care about the terminology, Woodward? Just get those boys out camping, whether it be with family or with den!

I incourage camping whole heartedly. Families can do as they please on their own time. Only Webelos can camp as a Den

[King Ding Dong 540]

So I guess the bigger question might be: Why do you care about the terminology, Woodward? Just get those boys out camping, whether it be with family or with den!

If only Webelos can camp as a den, we messed up. We had a bunch of backyard tiger campouts. Great fun, low drag and really got them comfortable with it.

[Woodward 10]

So I guess the bigger question might be: Why do you care about the terminology, Woodward? Just get those boys out camping, whether it be with family or with den!

it is all in how someone interprets age appropriate activities. you can always call it Family camping.

[Pack18Alex 92]

So I guess the bigger question might be: Why do you care about the terminology, Woodward? Just get those boys out camping, whether it be with family or with den!

KDD, did you get an approved tour plan, pretty sure a Den Campout for Tigers would be rejected. If anything went wrong, the homeowners liability coverage would be on the hook, since BSA will wash their hands of you.

[King Ding Dong 540]

So I guess the bigger question might be: Why do you care about the terminology, Woodward? Just get those boys out camping, whether it be with family or with den!

Per our council web site

 

Times when a Tour and Activity Plan must be submitted for council review include the following:

 

Trips of 500 miles or more; or

Trips outside of council borders (exception: not to your council-owned property); or

Trips to Florida Sea Base, Northern Tier, Philmont Scout Ranch, Summit Bechtel Reserve (you will be asked to present a copy of your tour and activity plan upon arrival), national Scout jamboree, National Order of the Arrow Conference, or a regionally sponsored event; or

When conducting any of the following activities outside of council or district events:

Aquatics activities (swimming, boating, floating, scuba, etc.)

Climbing and rappelling

Orientation flights (process flying plan)

Shooting sports

Any activities involving motorized vehicles as part of the program (snowmobiles, boating, etc.); or

At a council's request (Contact your local council for additional guidelines or regulations concerning tour and activity plans; many have set guidelines for events or activities within council boundaries such as for Cub Scout overnight camping.)

 

These are the guidelines our council provides. If they had additional restrictions on cub camping they would list them.

[Woodward 10]

So I guess the bigger question might be: Why do you care about the terminology, Woodward? Just get those boys out camping, whether it be with family or with den!

Age Guidelines

 

The Boy Scouts of America has established the following guidelines for its members’ participation in camping activities:

 

Overnight camping by Tiger Cub, Wolf, and Bear Cub Scout dens as dens is not approved, and certificates of liability insurance will not be provided by the Boy Scouts of America.

Tiger Cubs may participate in boy-parent excursions, day camps, pack overnighters, or council-organized family camping.

Wolf and Bear Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts may participate in a resident overnight camping program operating under BSA National Camping School– trained leadership and managed by the council.

A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by an adult. In most cases, the Webelos Scout will be under the supervision of his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of a parent-approved adult. Joint Webelos den/troop campouts including the parents of the Webelos Scouts are encouraged to strengthen ties between the pack and troop. Den leaders, pack leaders, and parents are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips.

[Basementdweller 608]

So I guess the bigger question might be: Why do you care about the terminology, Woodward? Just get those boys out camping, whether it be with family or with den!

Alex KDD has no clue what he is doing or talking about so take his advice with a grain of salt...

 

Cub Scout dens do not camp on their own....

 

Here is a link to the G2SS and a chart I had never seen before.....Den Camping is only permitted at the webelo level.

 

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss03.aspx

[Nike 94]

You do not "encourage" following G2SS during any Pack function. You follow it or you go home. End of story.

 

Before any Pack camp out, the CC and CM need to send out a Do's and Don'ts list to every family and remind everyone that this is not a private camp out but a PACK event following G2SS. Those unable or unwilling to follow the rules should reconsider their participation. Those who can not follow the rules while in camp will be asked to leave. And you have to back that promise with action.

 

[dedkad 127]

So I guess the bigger question might be: Why do you care about the terminology, Woodward? Just get those boys out camping, whether it be with family or with den!

KDD, you should have learned what your Council requires for overnight camping when you went to the BALOO training.