Talk to me about by-laws, please.

[kari_cardi 10]

Thanks for the input and the reassurance that I am on the right track!

[DeanRx 69]

The only time you need bylaws, is after an event that you wish you had them for.... most often has to do with money or discipline. My 2 cents is that for the most part, by-laws are a waste of time and energy. The EXCEPTION to this rule is when $$ or discipline is involved. We had out cub pack chartered as a "frineds or..." for 3 years, no problem. Then the committee decided it would be a good idea to have ISA (individual scout accounts) - i.e. accounts with funds earmarked for a specific scout based on a % of their fundraising $ brought it. Ok cool. So, what can the scout use his ISA dollars for? What can he NOT (if anything) use ISA dollars for? What if he quits / drops out of scouts and still has money in his ISA? Can an older brother transfer ISA dollars to a younger brother when he quits or ages out of the program? All those are GREAT things to have a by-law to set the rule. That way, the committee is not making a decision on the fly when a scout or parent comes forward wanting a check cut for Johnny's left over ISA account because we're moving out of state and after all he EARNED the money.... best to have your ducks in a row before you get to that issue. Maybe have a by-law on how to handle a scout who is deliquent on dues... does he still get to go on the campout / activity?

 

The second area for by-laws is in discipline. I'm not talking a boy gets out of line on a campout and needs to be talked to. I'm talking a youth has a history of disrupting / fighting / etc... or does something that is not "illegal" but might be grounds for kicking him out of the unit (i.e. shows up at campout with porn). So, WHO and HOW is the decision made on what level of discipline to take? I've seen this be handled by the SPL, ASPL, and PLC (not a good idea IMHO as kids tend to be WAAAAY harder on their peers than adults). Is it left to the unit committee? The Key Three of CC, SM, COR? Or is it handled by the SM unilaterally, or by a panel of the SM and ASM's? If the kid involved has a parent in any one of the previously mentioned adult leader positions, do they or do they not have a say in the process? Again, hope you never have to cross that bridge, but best to have some rules of the road BEFORE the roadtrip commences. You don't want to be making up policy on the fly on something like that.

 

As for meeting times / locations / dues / etc... I figure all that can be determined by the folks on the committee at the time.

 

Dean

[dadof3eagles 15]

Dear Sasha: Troops that do not need bylaws are fortunate. When I took over as committee chairman several years ago, the committee had serious problems with endless bickering and being unable to make decisions. (Perhaps this is because our troop is located in the Washington, DC, area, where pointless debate is sort of the local pastime!) We had a set of bylaws to which was appended a "parents' guide," which was a mishmash of rules and advice. The bylaws were too aspirational to be useful.

 

We are sponsored by the Catholic Church, which has its own rules and procedures, especially on youth protection, so we had a raft of issues to deal with and were not progressing well at all.

 

The first thing I did was impose Robert's Rules of Order, which is actually a wonderful thing if you understand the basics. Essentially, everyone gets his or her say but the will of the majority prevails. This avoids the vague "consensus" in which most people actually feel they have not in fact been heard. Decisions should be clear to all concerned. Only a majority vote gives you that clarity.

 

Then we reformed the bylaws to set up clear rules about committee operations. The committee has run smoothly ever since. We have an extremely successful troop with excellent fundraising, high-adventure activities, many Eagles, etc. (The troop had over 70 Scouts during my time and now has almost 100.) I won't say that solving the bylaws problem was key to this, but it avoided the time often wasted by unproductive meetings. Our biggest asset is an excellent Scoutmaster, and during my term as chairman (which lasted six years), I felt my biggest job was to support what he was doing and to keep the committee moving in that direction. With many lawyers, business people, and bureaucrats around the table, I felt that a firm structure was essential. You might not need it, but in cases of conflict and serious disagreement, bylaws come in very handy.

 

 

 

 

[fred johnson 936]

The only time you need bylaws, is after an event that you wish you had them for.... most often has to do with money or discipline. My 2 cents is that for the most part, by-laws are a waste of time and energy. The EXCEPTION to this rule is when $$ or discipline is involved. We had out cub pack chartered as a "frineds or..." for 3 years, no problem. Then the committee decided it would be a good idea to have ISA (individual scout accounts) - i.e. accounts with funds earmarked for a specific scout based on a % of their fundraising $ brought it. Ok cool. So, what can the scout use his ISA dollars for? What can he NOT (if anything) use ISA dollars for? What if he quits / drops out of scouts and still has money in his ISA? Can an older brother transfer ISA dollars to a younger brother when he quits or ages out of the program? All those are GREAT things to have a by-law to set the rule. That way, the committee is not making a decision on the fly when a scout or parent comes forward wanting a check cut for Johnny's left over ISA account because we're moving out of state and after all he EARNED the money.... best to have your ducks in a row before you get to that issue. Maybe have a by-law on how to handle a scout who is deliquent on dues... does he still get to go on the campout / activity?

 

The second area for by-laws is in discipline. I'm not talking a boy gets out of line on a campout and needs to be talked to. I'm talking a youth has a history of disrupting / fighting / etc... or does something that is not "illegal" but might be grounds for kicking him out of the unit (i.e. shows up at campout with porn). So, WHO and HOW is the decision made on what level of discipline to take? I've seen this be handled by the SPL, ASPL, and PLC (not a good idea IMHO as kids tend to be WAAAAY harder on their peers than adults). Is it left to the unit committee? The Key Three of CC, SM, COR? Or is it handled by the SM unilaterally, or by a panel of the SM and ASM's? If the kid involved has a parent in any one of the previously mentioned adult leader positions, do they or do they not have a say in the process? Again, hope you never have to cross that bridge, but best to have some rules of the road BEFORE the roadtrip commences. You don't want to be making up policy on the fly on something like that.

 

As for meeting times / locations / dues / etc... I figure all that can be determined by the folks on the committee at the time.

 

Dean

Good comments.

[fred johnson 936]

Dear Sasha: Troops that do not need bylaws are fortunate. When I took over as committee chairman several years ago, the committee had serious problems with endless bickering and being unable to make decisions. (Perhaps this is because our troop is located in the Washington, DC, area, where pointless debate is sort of the local pastime!) We had a set of bylaws to which was appended a "parents' guide," which was a mishmash of rules and advice. The bylaws were too aspirational to be useful.

 

We are sponsored by the Catholic Church, which has its own rules and procedures, especially on youth protection, so we had a raft of issues to deal with and were not progressing well at all.

 

The first thing I did was impose Robert's Rules of Order, which is actually a wonderful thing if you understand the basics. Essentially, everyone gets his or her say but the will of the majority prevails. This avoids the vague "consensus" in which most people actually feel they have not in fact been heard. Decisions should be clear to all concerned. Only a majority vote gives you that clarity.

 

Then we reformed the bylaws to set up clear rules about committee operations. The committee has run smoothly ever since. We have an extremely successful troop with excellent fundraising, high-adventure activities, many Eagles, etc. (The troop had over 70 Scouts during my time and now has almost 100.) I won't say that solving the bylaws problem was key to this, but it avoided the time often wasted by unproductive meetings. Our biggest asset is an excellent Scoutmaster, and during my term as chairman (which lasted six years), I felt my biggest job was to support what he was doing and to keep the committee moving in that direction. With many lawyers, business people, and bureaucrats around the table, I felt that a firm structure was essential. You might not need it, but in cases of conflict and serious disagreement, bylaws come in very handy.

 

 

 

Also good comments.

[fred johnson 936]

DeanRx & dadof3ealges wrote very good comments. Though I'd put it in a "Parent Guide", calling it By Laws is little harm. The key is that it's stuff that is special to the unit. Money handling. Meeting spots. Committee using Roberts Rules (if necessary).

 

Perhaps taking the opposite is useful. Here is what I would **** NOT **** put in a Parent Guide or By Laws and actually scares me.

 

---- The advancement process.

---- Process and procedure flow diagrams and checklists

---- Anything beyond summary level introductions to BSA topics like advancement, ranks, uniforming, leadership, etc. Guides are useful to get parents up to speed, but the scout should use the Boy Scout Handbook and not face any contradictions created by documenting excessive processes and procedures.

 

I think units have By Laws that often include these because until the last ten years, you could not easily find all that info online. Now you can get online copies of the GTA, G2SS and many other documents easily. You don't need to re-document them so that the scout and their families know the detail.

 

[bwest64098 10]

My troop has By-Laws. They were written by a committee that had been in place for several years. This was done more to ensure that "the way we've always done it" stayed that way. I would say that our most important "Law" is that to be a voting member of the Committee you have to attend a minimum of 3 of the last 6 Committee meetings. This way the committee can't get ambushed by a disgruntled group of parents. By the way parents of registered Scouts are invited to come to Committee meetings and are eligible voters (obviously if they satisfy the 3 of 6 rule).

 

I would be happy to email a copy of our By-Laws to anyone interested.

[fred johnson 936]

My troop has By-Laws. They were written by a committee that had been in place for several years. This was done more to ensure that "the way we've always done it" stayed that way. I would say that our most important "Law" is that to be a voting member of the Committee you have to attend a minimum of 3 of the last 6 Committee meetings. This way the committee can't get ambushed by a disgruntled group of parents. By the way parents of registered Scouts are invited to come to Committee meetings and are eligible voters (obviously if they satisfy the 3 of 6 rule).

 

I would be happy to email a copy of our By-Laws to anyone interested.

Voting member means a fairly consistent attendee or essentially not a 1st time drop in parent .. interesting. I could see need for that. I must admit our units don't vote and it's not a democracy. We try to always run by consensus, but our committee is more a hierarchy and not a voting body.