Jewish Scouting and the Reform Movement

[qwazse 4342]

I think that there are large cultural issues with the demographics within the Reform movement and scouting, that have nothing to do with gay issues. Between family expectations, the outdoors component, saluting flags and national service, etc., I don't see the Reform movement showing any interest in a gender based organization built around traditional American values. Like 00Eagle, I grew up Reform, and its just not the direction of them.

 

I mean, the membership policy is a reason not to charter units. However, refusing to acknowledge the religious accomplishments of the children within your congregation because you don't share values with a supporting organization... their priorities are simply not built around family and youth anymore.

How significant are awards in your communities? I've known some Christians in whose faith tradition they are a really big deal. In mine, folks view them as quirky, if not a little arrogant. So, I never felt comfortable using the religious awards program as a selling point for scouting.

[jasper18 13]

Just by way of FYI... I grew up in the North where there were lots of synagogues, temples, shuls, etc. from which to choose. I now live in the South where there is only one Reform and one Conservative choice within driving distance. I would love to do a religious emblems class for both GSUSA and BSA. I know they would never go for it at my synagogue and I don't think the Conservative one would, but I have never asked. I also would love to get a Scout Shabbat going for both scouts.

 

I did lead my son through the Macabee emblem and he is working on Aleph. My daughter just started Lehavah for Girl Scouts. I just wish there were more options for integrating our religious life with scouts.

[MattR 2659]

I think I have all of the Jewish (and Chinese American!) scouts from my city in my troop. Chinese moms are easier to deal with only because they struggle so much with English they give up before giving me an earful.

 

I'm in a small congregation (50 families). They claim to be reform but it seems to be a fuzzy distinction. It's a mix of a lot and everyone likes it. We have a range of political views from middle of the road Republican to hard core Democrat. Then there's the mom that teaches the youth, will step in for the rabbi if needed, will sing for the cantor if needed, and she's also a girl scout troop leader. If she had sons, she'd be a den leader. As for boy scouts, people in my congregation think that what I do as SM is a mtizvah. When they find out all the service and adventure we do, they really like it. They would like all kids, before bar and bat mitzvah, to do a "tikkun olam project." So they asked me if I'd help organize that. They'd sign me up for helping run a youth program if they thought they could squeeze the time out of me. I'm the one that makes sure the U.S. flag is on the correct side. So in my congregation being a SM is accepted, but we do have a very warm congregation.

 

That said, a few members have come up to me and said something along the lines of "I really like what you do for the children, but ... ." One of them came up to me and started talking about it and when she started she just had this view that all we did was make gay pinatas and beat them and she wanted to know how I could possibly be part of it. I told her what we really did and by the end her tone was much more accepting. Qwazse's point that the BSA is also viewed as Christian doesn't help either. Again, people have preconceived ideas.

 

The problem comes from those that have no idea what scouting is about. I see the Boy Scout ideas of service and adventure compare to yetzer tov (selfless) and yetzer ra (selfish). I think it's a great match. The fact that reform Jews might not like scouts baffles me.

[packsaddle 753]

I think I have all of the Jewish (and Chinese American!) scouts from my city in my troop. Chinese moms are easier to deal with only because they struggle so much with English they give up before giving me an earful.

 

I'm in a small congregation (50 families). They claim to be reform but it seems to be a fuzzy distinction. It's a mix of a lot and everyone likes it. We have a range of political views from middle of the road Republican to hard core Democrat. Then there's the mom that teaches the youth, will step in for the rabbi if needed, will sing for the cantor if needed, and she's also a girl scout troop leader. If she had sons, she'd be a den leader. As for boy scouts, people in my congregation think that what I do as SM is a mtizvah. When they find out all the service and adventure we do, they really like it. They would like all kids, before bar and bat mitzvah, to do a "tikkun olam project." So they asked me if I'd help organize that. They'd sign me up for helping run a youth program if they thought they could squeeze the time out of me. I'm the one that makes sure the U.S. flag is on the correct side. So in my congregation being a SM is accepted, but we do have a very warm congregation.

 

That said, a few members have come up to me and said something along the lines of "I really like what you do for the children, but ... ." One of them came up to me and started talking about it and when she started she just had this view that all we did was make gay pinatas and beat them and she wanted to know how I could possibly be part of it. I told her what we really did and by the end her tone was much more accepting. Qwazse's point that the BSA is also viewed as Christian doesn't help either. Again, people have preconceived ideas.

 

The problem comes from those that have no idea what scouting is about. I see the Boy Scout ideas of service and adventure compare to yetzer tov (selfless) and yetzer ra (selfish). I think it's a great match. The fact that reform Jews might not like scouts baffles me.

MattR, while I sympathize with your 'bafflement', you're still way ahead of me. Organized religion, in general, baffles me. It is one of the behaviors for which my (normally trustworthy) explanation for humans fails (which is, simply, we are monkeys). Monkeys (as far as I know) don't even have organized religions. And that leaves me in perpetual bafflement. H'mmm....on reflection, perhaps 'baffled' isn't the best description for what I feel....horrified fascination..........

[King Ding Dong 540]

I think I have all of the Jewish (and Chinese American!) scouts from my city in my troop. Chinese moms are easier to deal with only because they struggle so much with English they give up before giving me an earful.

 

I'm in a small congregation (50 families). They claim to be reform but it seems to be a fuzzy distinction. It's a mix of a lot and everyone likes it. We have a range of political views from middle of the road Republican to hard core Democrat. Then there's the mom that teaches the youth, will step in for the rabbi if needed, will sing for the cantor if needed, and she's also a girl scout troop leader. If she had sons, she'd be a den leader. As for boy scouts, people in my congregation think that what I do as SM is a mtizvah. When they find out all the service and adventure we do, they really like it. They would like all kids, before bar and bat mitzvah, to do a "tikkun olam project." So they asked me if I'd help organize that. They'd sign me up for helping run a youth program if they thought they could squeeze the time out of me. I'm the one that makes sure the U.S. flag is on the correct side. So in my congregation being a SM is accepted, but we do have a very warm congregation.

 

That said, a few members have come up to me and said something along the lines of "I really like what you do for the children, but ... ." One of them came up to me and started talking about it and when she started she just had this view that all we did was make gay pinatas and beat them and she wanted to know how I could possibly be part of it. I told her what we really did and by the end her tone was much more accepting. Qwazse's point that the BSA is also viewed as Christian doesn't help either. Again, people have preconceived ideas.

 

The problem comes from those that have no idea what scouting is about. I see the Boy Scout ideas of service and adventure compare to yetzer tov (selfless) and yetzer ra (selfish). I think it's a great match. The fact that reform Jews might not like scouts baffles me.

Unfortunately we have been given religous texts that are so confounding that we need teams of religous scholars to interpret them for us and tell us each week what they really mean. I so much would prefer a one or two page memo in language I could understand. I pray for such a document regularly, but my prayers have gone unanswered. A pamphlet would even do. I would settle for a updated revision in English every 10 years or so. I am sure God could find some volunteers to help out.

[qwazse 4342]

I think I have all of the Jewish (and Chinese American!) scouts from my city in my troop. Chinese moms are easier to deal with only because they struggle so much with English they give up before giving me an earful.

 

I'm in a small congregation (50 families). They claim to be reform but it seems to be a fuzzy distinction. It's a mix of a lot and everyone likes it. We have a range of political views from middle of the road Republican to hard core Democrat. Then there's the mom that teaches the youth, will step in for the rabbi if needed, will sing for the cantor if needed, and she's also a girl scout troop leader. If she had sons, she'd be a den leader. As for boy scouts, people in my congregation think that what I do as SM is a mtizvah. When they find out all the service and adventure we do, they really like it. They would like all kids, before bar and bat mitzvah, to do a "tikkun olam project." So they asked me if I'd help organize that. They'd sign me up for helping run a youth program if they thought they could squeeze the time out of me. I'm the one that makes sure the U.S. flag is on the correct side. So in my congregation being a SM is accepted, but we do have a very warm congregation.

 

That said, a few members have come up to me and said something along the lines of "I really like what you do for the children, but ... ." One of them came up to me and started talking about it and when she started she just had this view that all we did was make gay pinatas and beat them and she wanted to know how I could possibly be part of it. I told her what we really did and by the end her tone was much more accepting. Qwazse's point that the BSA is also viewed as Christian doesn't help either. Again, people have preconceived ideas.

 

The problem comes from those that have no idea what scouting is about. I see the Boy Scout ideas of service and adventure compare to yetzer tov (selfless) and yetzer ra (selfish). I think it's a great match. The fact that reform Jews might not like scouts baffles me.

KDD, it started out as a one page memo ...

 

"Be fruitful and multiply.

You're in charge now, here are the keys to the planet.

Have all the fruit you want ... except that one."

 

Well, two out of three ain't bad.

[MattR 2659]

KDD, here's one cliffnotes version, presumably written around the 4th century. It's well known and, naturally, comes with a story: "Hillel, when asked by a prospective convert to Judaism to teach him the whole Torah while he stood on one leg, replied: 'That which is hateful unto you do not do to your neighbor. This is the whole of the Torah, The rest is commentary. Go forth and study.'" So, start with the Golden Rule and once you have that figured out go study the Bible to learn more. And never stop. i.e., it's a journey. What can I say, people are complex.

 

Pack, I hear you. Organized religion has a bad side. There's also a good part that I find incredibly wonderful. To me, it gets down to the Golden Rule, which is really about love. But love is hard to define. It's kind of like gravity, we know it when we see it, but we can't define it or reason about it. Anyway, it would be nice if everyone lived this ideal. It will never happen but maybe we can get closer. So, like anything in scouts, you can't talk about love, you have to do it. Gotta feel the love. When I pray, I do feel the love. I have no idea why it works. It just does, much like gravity. We just need to work on the bad side. It's improving, just slowly.

[packsaddle 753]

KDD, here's one cliffnotes version, presumably written around the 4th century. It's well known and, naturally, comes with a story: "Hillel, when asked by a prospective convert to Judaism to teach him the whole Torah while he stood on one leg, replied: 'That which is hateful unto you do not do to your neighbor. This is the whole of the Torah, The rest is commentary. Go forth and study.'" So, start with the Golden Rule and once you have that figured out go study the Bible to learn more. And never stop. i.e., it's a journey. What can I say, people are complex.

 

Pack, I hear you. Organized religion has a bad side. There's also a good part that I find incredibly wonderful. To me, it gets down to the Golden Rule, which is really about love. But love is hard to define. It's kind of like gravity, we know it when we see it, but we can't define it or reason about it. Anyway, it would be nice if everyone lived this ideal. It will never happen but maybe we can get closer. So, like anything in scouts, you can't talk about love, you have to do it. Gotta feel the love. When I pray, I do feel the love. I have no idea why it works. It just does, much like gravity. We just need to work on the bad side. It's improving, just slowly.

MattR, What you just described as the good part isn't organized religion. It's your personal view and your personal way and that's great. I completely appreciate the personal aspect of faith.

[MattR 2659]

KDD, here's one cliffnotes version, presumably written around the 4th century. It's well known and, naturally, comes with a story: "Hillel, when asked by a prospective convert to Judaism to teach him the whole Torah while he stood on one leg, replied: 'That which is hateful unto you do not do to your neighbor. This is the whole of the Torah, The rest is commentary. Go forth and study.'" So, start with the Golden Rule and once you have that figured out go study the Bible to learn more. And never stop. i.e., it's a journey. What can I say, people are complex.

 

Pack, I hear you. Organized religion has a bad side. There's also a good part that I find incredibly wonderful. To me, it gets down to the Golden Rule, which is really about love. But love is hard to define. It's kind of like gravity, we know it when we see it, but we can't define it or reason about it. Anyway, it would be nice if everyone lived this ideal. It will never happen but maybe we can get closer. So, like anything in scouts, you can't talk about love, you have to do it. Gotta feel the love. When I pray, I do feel the love. I have no idea why it works. It just does, much like gravity. We just need to work on the bad side. It's improving, just slowly.

I can't quite see that. I got to the point where I am at least partially because of a lot of people before me. The prayers, the stories, and the ceremonies are all things I never would have figured out on my own. So, the organized part of my religious beliefs are a necessary part of my personal beliefs. Sufficient? No, I'll give you that.

[bwest64098 10]

I'm not Jewish. I don't know the requirements for the Religious award within the Jewish faith. But I keep seeing posts about the Syn not allow this or that. Can you not hold the program somewhere outside the Syn?

[Pack18Alex 92]

I think that there are large cultural issues with the demographics within the Reform movement and scouting, that have nothing to do with gay issues. Between family expectations, the outdoors component, saluting flags and national service, etc., I don't see the Reform movement showing any interest in a gender based organization built around traditional American values. Like 00Eagle, I grew up Reform, and its just not the direction of them.

 

I mean, the membership policy is a reason not to charter units. However, refusing to acknowledge the religious accomplishments of the children within your congregation because you don't share values with a supporting organization... their priorities are simply not built around family and youth anymore.

On the other hand I've seen units that say "if you're wearing our pack numbers on your sleeve, don't violate Shabbat or eat treif." Not a policy I can support, since district and council events are open to all scouts, regardless of unit affiliation. What are they supposed to do? Go in civvies or tape over their unit numbers?

 

Well, how do you think Council would respond if they saw me at a public event, in Class A Uniform, smoking a cigar and drinking a bourbon? They would throw me out for engaging in conduct not becoming of BSA while representing BSA. If I'm in civilian attire, go into a bar, and smoke and drink, nobody from BSA will care, because I'm not representing BSA.

 

We have made it pretty clear that we are happy to be active and involved in our District/Council, making a "Do Your Best" level of effort for participation, and they have been great at involving us in stuff, including scheduling around Jewish holidays major and minor. That said, I won't dispatch my non-observant leadership to meetings on Yom Tov (Roundtable overlapped with the 7th day of Passover last year, we did not attend), I will not send representatives from our Unit on Shabbat. In fact, when we needed to straighten out our registration at a Camporee, one of my non-observant leaders offered to go and correct the paperwork, I declined, walked down myself, and got help from one of the leaders that knew the drill and wrote down my verbal instructions.

 

So I'd consider a leader in my Unit in uniform attending a district/council event with our numbers on, violating Shabbat or eating Treif, similarly to how other units would respond to such a leader drinking, doing drugs, or otherwise acting in an unsavory manner.

[TonyHooker 10]

I'm coming at this as a Methodist, and first of all, I'd like to say it's not always that easy to get the Methodist Men to help out with scouting. Some of those guys are more bullheaded than you would expect.

 

One of the suggestions that I saw above was that what was really needed was a family inside the congregation that will champion Scouting. They need to be able to step into a leadership role, and find other families both inside and outside the congregation that may be interested in it.

 

You may also need to decide if you are going to be focusing on serving your own congregation, or serving the community. My own troop has a number of different religious traditions represented. I'd say about 15-20% of the pack are members of the church, and maybe 10% of the Troop.

 

As for the Religious Emblems Programs, we offered them to all of our church youth + any of the scouts who would like to participate. We focused on them as primarily Christian Education in our case, as the PRAY program is very non-denominational, and works with just about all mainline Christian Denominations. It's a good program, regardless of whether or not a kid is involved in scouting.

 

I do not know if the Jewish Religious emblems could be used in that way. But if they can be, I would recommend asking the church to offer them for all the kids, not just the scouts... and make it available to scouts of your faith in other troops and packs throughout the community. It might be you signing up to help run things though.

 

However, if you cannot find a critical mass within your own synagogue, I hope you can find a good home in some other location, in a multi-faith pack or troop.