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Lying, Scouting Ideals, etc

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""No fact is more firmly established than that lying is a necessity of our circumstances, -- the deduction that it is then a Virtue goes without saying. No virtue can reach its highest usefulness without careful and diligent cultivation, -- therefore, it goes without saying, that this one ought to be taught in the public schools -- at the fireside -- even in the newspapers. What chance has the ignorant, uncultivated liar against the educated expert? What chance have I against Mr. Per ---- against a lawyer? Judicious lying is what the world needs. I sometimes think it were even better and safer not to lie at all than to lie injudiciously. An awkward, unscientific lie is often as ineffectual as the truth. ""

==Mark Twain, address to the Historical and Antiquarian Club of Hartford Conn.== http://grammar.about.com/od/60essays/a/lyingessay.htm




33Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:


34But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:


35Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.


36Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.


37But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Math 5:33>>






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OK, fermi91. I'll humor you.


When you say that "i am getting something that looks realy good in resumes," what do you mean?


Do you really think you are going to pass an EBOR with the attitude you're showing us here? Because if you haven't yet, I seriously have my doubts that you will, considering that many Scouts with a much more Scoutlike attitude don't.


Do you really think that by making Eagle, you will have something to counterbalance the long list of job after job after job on your resume that you will undoubtedly enter and be forced to leave due to the attitude you're showing us here?


Seriously, you should look back on these threads and ask yourself if this is really how you want the world to see you, because it's highly unlikely you'll ever get what you want, much less keep it, if this is any indication of how people see you in real life.(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

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You forgot clemlaw.. The reason the eagle rank carrying any weight in the world is due to people like this boy who cheat there way through.. Of the small percent of groups who still think well of an Eagle Scout, if they hire someone who was an Eagle Scout, and they turn out to be totally self-centered, untrustworthy and a cheat they fire him, and will not let the Eagle rank sway them for the next canadate..


fermi - unfortunatly many of your type have gone before you, and have already ruined it for you.. If you aren't in scouting for yourself, in order to improve your charactor then you are wasting your time.. Todays scouting experience is not what you can write on a resume. It is the positive attitude, good work ethic, care for others etc that will shine through.. That is what you need to learn and take away with you in scouting. That is what will be seen and valued by people. That is what will get you ahead in life while you raise a family, have a career, and be a member of the community..


That little piece of paper you are cheating your way through, will simply be a meaningless piece of paper if you have learned nothing in order to get it.. It will offer you no extra benefit..


Four troops huh?? I take it you are not fitting in? Same will be your lot in life as you jump from one job to another to another.. Your resume will be full of holes and tarnished, and that Eagle rank will look meaningless in the face of the fact you are unable to hold a decent job..

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the reason that i have been to four troops is because the first two where crap. they hd one camp out every two years weather they needed it or not. they never went to summer camp.


then i found a troop that i liked. we had to move.


the troop that i am with now is a very good troop.


i do not plan on being a hobo. when i am 50 i hope to have better thingd to do with my life then be a 50 year old man scout.


and for my EBOR i will play along and be the goody goody life scout that will get me the badge.


also my troop has no idea of this. i have no problem with scoutting as a general idea, afer several bad experinces i have a great distrust of organzations that hide information. eg the OA.

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Guest OldGreyEagle

Ladies and Gentlemen, when you tire let me know and I will close this thread and then any other this guy starts up. I closed the thread in the OA safeguarded section as he admits he is not an arrowman so he is not eligible to post there.


Here is another matter, I had this closed for 5 minutes and then thought better, if it serves as a distraction, I can see that but I will close it if needs be


Just wondering if ee cummings is his favorite poet?

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I was thinking the same thing jet..


People float from one job to another being fired or walking out, and it is always the job that was crap, they can find no fault with themselves.. So moving, I will accept, the first 2 troops being crap & your 4th troop also being crap.. I know I am getting a one-sided version from a very one-sided person, who feels the world revolves around them.


Regardless, you will get out of Scouts what you put into it. If it is nothing, then that is what you will get out of it.. And no college or company will put much worth in it either unless you are a glowing example, which you will not be. You do little things daily that get you notice, people say "Wow" then someone will comment, "yeah he's a Eagle scout".. You do nothing worthwhile, people ignore you and you muddle through life.. Or you do something totally wrong, boneheaded or illegal and people point and say "That's suppose to be an Eagle Scout" and people see no value in it what-so-ever, for you or anyone else..


People in the buisness world are not so black and white as you are at your age. You can have a Degree in teaching and have no personality for it.. You can have a Degree in computer science and not be able to analyze a computer problem.. You can have a medical degree, and not be detail oriented enough to not give the wrong medicine, or have an awful bed-side manner.. You can have the rank of Eagle, and not have a clue as to what it is to live your life by the standards.. There is many many things that you can emulate and cheat and fake your way through the paper is meaningless.. That is why everyone looks for buisness experience..


Eagle Scout just on the resume will have no more value than others putting down 4H club, Football, Track team, Hospital volunteer.. Etc.. When the person is just looking at a piece of paper. It is no more then a single point for you in extra-curricular.. If you have some parent pushing you to stay and finish due to a college app, or resume.. You can tell them, it really isn't all that..


By the way, you might want to spend some time learning to spell a little better without a spell checker.. That might help you more on your College App or resume, then a line about an Eagle rank with no substance behind it. I am by far not a perfect speller, but...


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A private message from fermi:





I had to censor it to get past the censors.



He seems sensitive about that ---- I thought it would be something in which he would take pride.



fermi, you should read "The Prince" by 16th century Italian Niccol Machiavelli. You'd like reading it, and it goes over the kind of ethical issues you raise in a sympathetic but realistic fashion.


Your ideas aren't new and aren't necessarily wrong. They are a different ethical system and standard than that promoted by Boy Scouts.



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" i hope to have better thingd to do with my life then be a 50 year old man scout."


Then I feel truly sorry for you that you feel that contributing and helping guide the youth of tomorrow would be a waste of time.


Then again with your attitude and views I don't want you influencing them anyway.


I hope you grow up and see the benefit of what your SM and (maybe) your parents tried to teach you. Values, principles, service to others, you know that "goody, goody stuff"


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I want to point out to those that respond, there is no reasoning with this type of person. I think he is very Bill Clinton like and uses many of the same justifications to "prove" that his failures and shortcomings are actually advantages. The sad truth is he probably believes what he writes and just does not have enough experience in life to see that he is already on the road to failure. It is kind of like a train wreck, you see it but there is nothing you can do and you just sit and watch while shaking your head. I have worked with youth for quite a few years and I have met several people (both adults and youth) that like this boy, don't have the mental capacity to understand why the things they do are wrong and why they are less than acceptable. His justifications prove that he doesn't understand and the fact that there are boys who's parents did such a horible job raising them just proves why we need to do what we do. This boy is justification for helping others so they don't turn out like him. The jails are full of losers like this one and we even had another thread pop up about a couple of Scout killers that are basically the same kind of people as this one. The sad part is all of the ones like this that I have met all think they are pulling the wool over everybody else's eyes and the reality is it is very rarely that way. I have had to fire too many of them in my life and I just evicted one from a rental that I own. There are enough of them that they are dangers to themselves and to society. I think that omparing him to Bill Clinton was very accurate and I know another like him that everyone who knows him calls him "Weasel Boy" behind his back. He is also deluded and thinks no one sees the truth. It is very sad and you have to feel pity for these kinds of people.

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