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Ed, 20% of all Scouts in BSA are now LDS members. Mormons use BSA as their youth organization. It would seem that BSA thinks that LDS scouts can do duty to God without any problem.

In the beginning of this thread, Hunt asked why does BSA think following a false religion is better than having no religion? I wonder if you think following this cult is any better than atheism.It seems you keep making points that BSA should allow atheists to be involved in Scouting.

Maybe youshouldn't participate in an organization that would tolerate a cult as a valid path for duty to God. You are also violating the 12th point- respect for the beliefs of others, by the intolerant nature of your post.

Fuzzy, thanks for trying to bring this thread back to sanity. But, rigid religious beliefs do noteasily respond to thelogic of your approach.

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You both have strong beliefs, that's wonderful. But you are not the only two, so do millions of people in many different ways. In Scouting religion is like politics. Scouting doesn't care what party you are just don't force it on others. The BSA promotes active citizenship but not support of a specific party.


In light of your last post/lecture, I think youre either making a lot of assumptions about me and/or youre distorting my views on this topic. I do have strong religious beliefs. Beyond that, you lost me.


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Thank you for attempting to answer the heart of my question.


However, not all the gospels are eye witness accounts, as you said. The Book of John (the most often quoted from) was not written until well after Jesus died on the Cross. I think at least one other gospel was written by someone who was not alive at the time of His passing as well.


So my question remains on the table. Memory is dim from college days, but I believe Mark was the only one who was alive at the time Jesus lived.


That does not in any way diminish my belief in Him, but I do believe that humans are human and may have screwed up a bit in their attempt to portray Truth.




Oh, and lay off the Mormons, will ya'll? The comments made about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints that I've seen in this thread are among the most bigotted comments I've run across in a long time. There's no call for it.

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Here's my 2nd attempt to answer your question. :)


The Gospel of Mathew


Mathew, whose name means "gift of the Lord," was a tax collector who left his work to follow Jesus (9:9-13). In Mark and Luke he is called by his other name, Levi.


The Gospel of Mark


Mark was a close associate of Peter from whom he received the tradition of the things said and done by the Lord, but as the preaching of Peter...preaching directed to the needs of the early Christian communities; Mark accurately preserved this material. The conclusion drawn from this tradition is that the Gospel of Mark largely consists of the preaching of Peter arranged and shaped by John Mark or by Mark as we know him.


The Gospel of Luke


Luke 1:1


1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,

2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.


This Gospel is a companion book to the book of Acts. They are addressed to the same individual, Theophilus, and the second volume refers to the first Acts (1:11) By Process of elimination this probably Paul's "dear friend, Luke the Doctor" (Col 4:14) The Gospel is specifically directed to Theophilus (as an completed investigation)(1:3), whose name means "one who loves God" and almost certainly refers to a particular person rather than to lovers of God in general.


The Gospel of John


The author is the apostle John, "the disciple whom Jesus loved" (13:23; 19:26; 20:2; 21:7, 20,24).


All information was provided by my Zondervan NIV study Bible.

(This message has been edited by Jason OK)(This message has been edited by Jason OK)

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It may be that modern day evangelicals have decided that God has blessed their special edition of the New Testament but Mark was the basis to the writing of Luke and Matthews texts.

Even the Gospel of Mark has been shown to have been tampered with.


When totaled there are over 250,000 mistakes, misquotes, intentional deletions, edited passages, interpolated ideas, scribal errors, subtractions, spelling errors, and alterations due to doctrinal or theological beliefs. There are thousands of New Testament manuscripts which differ. These texts have been reworked extensively over the years, According to Professor Merrill M. Parvis, it is safe to say that there is not one sentence in the New Testament in which the manuscript tradition is wholly uniform. The oldest text Codex Sinaiticus unequivocally shows that the modern day text was edited and embellished for doctrinal reasons.


The Codex Vaticanus another manuscript of a slightly older date agrees with Sinaiticus in that it demonstrated scribal editing in later versions.


These are texts that Zondervan isnt telling you about. Try again.


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"Ed, 20% of all Scouts in BSA are now LDS members. Mormons use BSA as their youth organization. It would seem that BSA thinks that LDS scouts can do duty to God without any problem."


I never said they couldn't do their duty to God. All I said was they are a cult and shouldn't be considered Christian.



Good word! Describes you to a T!


Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10



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NJ (and anyone else in particular?), I thought I'd take a little time away from the two or more kolboyniks in this thread and have a little fun. I had to hustle back from camp in order to attend a Bar Mitzvah for one of the boys. I always enjoy these - NJ, you folks really are just fascinating people! :) At one point I was singled out for recognition as a boy scout leader. I felt greatly honored and I was proud for the boy.


Whenever I am infrequently asked to deliver some words of reverence, I quote from some of the early explorers who describe the new wonders they observe while giving thanks to the creator. (BTW, Bartram is one favorite of mine.) Often a person or two will approach me afterwards asking where they can read more. I am always happy to oblige.


Back to the Bar Mitzvah...I'm not Jewish. Heck, I was called a 'mench' (mentsh, mensch?) several times before I knew whether that was a good thing or a bad thing, I was almost afraid to ask. Then I did a little reading and found some other terms to try to avoid (oy vey!).

But afterward, we all stood around schmoozing and working up our appetites. Luckily (and I guess ironically) some of us were able to find enough chutzpah to schlep our appetites across the street to nosh on some pork barbecue. Mmmmm, wickedly good!

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What is the WORD according to "Fuzzy Bear"?


According to what you just said no modern Bible is worth reading. What New Testament do you read?


You made reference to Zondervan....I do have other Bibles from other publishers.

Yes Mark is and was the Basis for the other Gospels.


I'm not sure what your motive is but Unc asked a question and I answered it from the Bible. I looked in my other (non Zondervan)Bibles and they also said the same thing.


What about my reference Bibles in their original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic text (derived from their original locals)?


Where do I enroll to learn the "TRUTH" FUZZY? I guess according to you I will throw all my Bible away and tell Jesus he did nothing for my sins. Because you have just basically said that.......


Professor Merrill M. Parvis? Is HE THE ONLY Authority on the BIBLE? Does he know about the text being uncovered in Israel that supports the books of the New Testament?


One thing is clear. There is evil in this world disguised with many different masks. Satan's favorite tool is deception.


Shame on you Fuzzy! You Denounce the same Bible you Quote from!



Acts 13:10

And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?(This message has been edited by Jason OK)

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I have every right to quote from the books and the authors where I find truth, the same as you. I have every right to question any truth and to follow that truth to the ends of the earth, unlike you. Truth is more subtle and complicated than you have made it. That is the very reason that you should temper your rash pronouncements.


Notice your words, you believe yourself to hold all truth and have deemed yourself the judge of all. A seat never offered to you. You sit in the seat of God and have begun your condemnation proceedings. Sad







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DO NOT QUOTE THE BIBLE IF YOUR ARE GOING TO RIP IT APART! People that usually quote the Bible have respect for it being the WORD OF GOD, INSPIRED SUPERNATURALLY BY GOD. Consider my last post a warning;trying to lead you to the "TRUTH"....."I" do not have to ultimately Judge you. "I" can let everyone know that you have blasphemed before the Lord and your teachings perverse Gods Son Jesus. The "FUZZY TRUTH" is no where mentioned in the Good Book.


1 Corinthians 4:14

I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you



You also said:




"Because, God wishes to walk with you and go where you go and do what you do and be there when you wish for him to listen to you and to answer your questions. God teaches us individually."


God said when we ask for his guidance and we believe we hear him...we can always verify it is God by opening the Bible. If it does not go against his word then we should listen. Are you sure it is not Satan starting to influence you. Because your "TRUTH" is a little FUZZY! It does not go with what the Bible says.



Acts 18:6

And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean; from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.(This message has been edited by Jason OK)(This message has been edited by Jason OK)

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I have really enjoyed pulling your chain. Don't take it personally but you are very easily riled. Just because you are from Oklahoma and a disciple of Tim Lahaye doesn't mean you know all truth. I sincerely hope you are not doing these injustices to the Scouts you serve.


By the way, today is the Fourth of July. We can celebrate the birth of real freedom, religious freedom, freedom of speech, freedom to know and worship God as each of us has come to know him. We can celebrate our multi-cultural backgrounds and all the differences we have. We can celebrate the freedom to speak our minds and not have the police come and lock us for having differences.


that is great news!





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WOW! How do I comment on something as stupid as what you said?


"Just because you are from Oklahoma and a disciple of Tim Lahaye doesn't mean you know all truth."



(This message has been edited by Jason OK)

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Guest OldGreyEagle

I am not sure if it was Pliny the Elder or Pliny the Younger, or one of the other noted historians of the Roman Empire, but one of them gave us the quote, "See how these Christians love one another..."


I wonder what that historian would say about this thread

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There does not seem to be many Christians on this Post. The Christians that I know of (evmori, Jason OK, Rooster7 even Bob White).

With exception of Bob White we Christians have been trying to protect our faith. I got on this post because I noticed Rooster7 was being picked apart. So to refer to your comment


"See how these Christians love one another..."




Although I think Bob White is a bit of a Know-It-All...I still love him because he states he is a brother in Christ. Bob, I hope you realize this.


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