Bob White 20 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 "If a person who doesn't recognize the presence of God could benefit from what Scouting offers, is that not worth more than keeping them out? But the opportunity to belong to an organization that values the presence of God and lets you participate with others who feel the same without having to debate or defend your beliefs is one of the benefits scouting offers. What is so unusual about having an organization that is limited to people of like intersts? Try getting to be a police officer if you don't believe in obeying the law. Try to join the army if you wont swear allegiance to defend the country. Try to be Rabbi if you don't embrace the Jewish Faith. See how long you will last in Little League if you don't want to follow the rules. Heck you couldn't join my mom's bridge club if you didn't at least want to learn how to play bridge. Lots of organizations are based on its members sharing interests, beliefs, or characteristics. So is Scouting. Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 I take no comfort whatsoever in the idea that people are damned to hell for all eternity. It is that exact sort of mentality that made me leave the church a long time ago. You might not take comfort in this but it is a fact & any church sugar coating this is doing a great disservice to it's members. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
Achilleez 10 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Bob White, It is my understanding that there is still a great deal of debating and defending of beliefs within Scouting (within this forum anyway)regardless of a common value like recognition of God. However, how often do issues like this actually affect real Scouting? When asked, my son told me that religion and beleifs almost never came up. Do Scouts have real concern with the beliefs of other Scouts? Isn't respecting others beliefs a requirement of Scouts as well? You apparently think that no, a non-believer who benefits from Scouting is NOT worth it. In my opinion, positive values are well placed wherever placed they may be. FOG, If I had the time, ambition, funds, knowledge and management skills to do so, maybe I would. However no such organization exists, at least none equal to Scouting. evmori, No, it's not fact. Boy this could get tedious.... Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Achilleez, Yes it is! If one doesn't repent from one's sins then one will spend eternity in hell. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
scoutingagain 20 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Ed, You said, "If one doesn't repent from one's sins then one will spend eternity in hell." Do you imply that anyone that doesn't believe this or accept this as fact should not be in scouting? SA Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 "Do Scouts have real concern with the beliefs of other Scouts?" Bad question. What scouts think and what Scouting thinks are not always identical. Scouting thinks that a belief and duty toward God is a key componentent of the program. Do all scouts feel this way? That depends on how well the leaders deliver the program, and as you know from this forum not every leader follows the program. In units that are lead correctly, every scouting ideal is important. To everyone, What one or more adult leader believes in his personal faith is not relative or reflective of what the BSA stands for. Do not forget that the membership of the BSA is made of many, many, religious beliefs. The BSA is only concerned that the Scout or Scouter have a belief in God and gives service to God. The BSA accepts the fact that those beliefs come in many different forms and allows each to be reverent to God in the manner of their choice and custom.(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 "If I had the time, ambition, funds, knowledge and management skills to do so, maybe I would." So what you're saying is that you really don't want to. Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Do you imply that anyone that doesn't believe this or accept this as fact should not be in scouting? No I am not implying that or anything like that. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
Achilleez 10 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 FOG, That's correct. I as an individual don't want to due to a lack of the required traits already listed. evmori, No it isn't! Link to post Share on other sites
NJCubScouter 1389 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 BobWhite says: The BSA is only concerned that the Scout or Scouter have a belief in God and gives service to God. The BSA accepts the fact that those beliefs come in many different forms and allows each to be reverent to God in the manner of their choice and custom. Well, most of the time, but not all the time. If your religion happens to believe that God does not want us discriminating against those of his children who happen to be gay, then in fact the BSA does not allow you to be a member and at the same time be reverent to God in the manner of your own choice and custom. Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Achilleez, So you think you can live a life of sin & still go to heaven? Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
acco40 95 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 I thought one of the basic tenets of the Christian religion(s) was that man was born in sin, lives a sinful life and yet, yes, may "make it" to heaven because someone in the past "died for our sins." A few stipulations exist, according to what religious doctrine one references, but leading a life free of sin isn't a prerequisite. Thank goodness for me! Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 acco40, I'm not saying one can live a sin-free life. What I as saying is if one continues to sin & never asks for forgiveness for those sins one will go he**. Ed Mori Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
boleta 10 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 NJSC says "If your religion happens to believe that God does not want us discriminating against those of his children who happen to be gay, then in fact the BSA does not allow you to be a member and at the same time be reverent to God in the manner of your own choice and custom." Where does that come from? BSA only prevents the church of this religion to be a Charter Organization since it is incompatible with National policy. It says nothing about the Scout or Scouter who has these beliefs. No one asks me which church I belong to. If they did, I would object as strongly as possible. As long as the scout does his duty to God (personal belief), then he is welcome in BSA. Link to post Share on other sites
SR540Beaver 116 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Ed, I believe as you do. That being said, it is a "fact" for me because I accept it based purely on faith. It can not be proven regardless of how strongly I believe it. The world will never accept your view as "fact" like they will believe something that can be proven empirically. While it may be a fact to YOU, it really is a matter of faith, not fact. Link to post Share on other sites
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