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Moral Values

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Moral Values: Hot topic for sure. BSA set a standard and the high court of the land ruled in the favor of BSA. Let's move on from here and respect the standard and ruling if we really care about the Scouts, or did we forget about them in all this. The Bible teaches this and other behavior is a sin in the eyes of God. The question we should be asking now is how will we account for ourselves when called before our maker.


Merry Christmas and happy holidays. God's blessings on all.

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Thanks for your response. However, I don't come from a big council. We have three professional staff and one council executive. What I have seen are fake units formed from existing registered scouts. They were formed so the district executive and council executive could advance and move on.


Also, I have witnessed a DE undermine volunteers because they only could afford to give of their time and not FOS. Because of that they have quit being volunteers. This same DE has back stabbed volunteers and make promises to others that he does not intend to keep. A very unscouter thing to do. Being blow off and stabbed in the back is all you can expect here at my council.

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The following story was published by NewsMax.com (which is

in West Palm Beach, Florida), on Monday, Dec. 18, 2000:


HEADLINE: Exclusive: 2002 Salt Lake Committee Bans Boy Scouts


From Olympics


By David M. Bresnahan


The largest Boy Scout council in the country responded to the

call for volunteers issued by the Salt Lake Olympic Organizing

Committee, but the welcome mat was rolled up and the door slammed

in its face.


Olympic spokesmen for the 2002 winter games say the exclusion has

nothing to do with recent protests by gay activists.


While the organizing committee for the Olympic event is prominently

displaying a call for local volunteers, they have explicitly let it

be known that the Boy Scouts need not apply.


"For us not to be involved is discouraging, considering the Atlanta

games. The Scouting council there was extremely involved," said Kay

Godfrey, professional Scout executive for the Great Salt Lake

Council of Boy Scouts.


A number of executives and volunteers from the council have

worked for many months with Salt Lake Olympic officials under

the assumption that the Boy Scouts would participate in Olympic

ceremonies - until recently.


Boy Scouts were seen in many of the venues at the 1996 Atlanta

Summer Olympics, and they participated in a number of ceremonies



Salt Lake Scouts expected the same opportunity in 2002, particularly

because Utah is so supportive of the BSA program. About 45 percent

of the population of Utah belongs to the Church of Jesus Christ of

Latter-day Saints, the largest sponsor of Scout units in the country.



At a recent training event for Scout leaders, Marty Latimer, chief

Scout executive for the council, revealed that the Scouts are no

longer welcome.


"We dont understand whats wrong. They just dont want us and

wont talk to us," said Latimer.


He told NewsMax.com that Mitt Romney, president and CEO of the

Salt Lake Olympic Committee, has not returned phone calls from

a number of Scout officials who have tried to obtain clarification.


Latimer and other Scout leaders say they are confused because

Romney is a former Scout and Scout Leader and a prominent member

of the LDS Church.


Despite many attempts to work out a solution, Romney has not

returned calls to the Scout leaders after months of attempting

to negotiate with him.


"We also lost a great opportunity to house workers for the Olympics

at Camp Tracy," said Latimer, referring to a local scout facility.


A plan had been established to build a dormitory to house food

service workers, but that group has also indicated they no longer

plan to use Camp Tracy. No explanation was given to the Scouts

for the change of plans.


R. Lawry Hunsaker, council president, told NewsMax.com he was

surprised that Romney has ignored Scout leaders.


"We cant get him to return our calls," he said.


Hunsaker said other spokesmen from the Olympic committee have

indicated to him that Scouts in uniform will not be permitted

to volunteer at the Winter Olympics.


The Scouts are not the only ones having difficulty talking with



Rep. Chris Cannon, R-Utah, told NewsMax.com that he waited for

some time to get a personal response from Romney on the issue,

but a public affairs person called instead.


Cannon is a strong supporter of the Boy Scouts and joined with

others to found a Web site that collects money to help Scout

groups whose funding has been cut because of their decision not

to allow gay scoutmasters.


Cannon's congressional district represents the Great Salt Lake



"We were told its just an age-limit thing. The Scouts arent

old enough to volunteer," Cannon told NewsMax.com


Romney would not return calls to NewsMax.com.


"Our state has a strong volunteer heritage that has endured -

like the Olympic Spirit - for generations," said Romney in a

published appeal for volunteers.


"The 2002 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games will provide

a chance for thousands of Utahns to participate through

volunteering. And it is only through volunteer support that

we can succeed in 2002."


Although Romney would not respond to repeated requests for an

interview, Olympic Committee spokeswoman Caroline Shaw did call

to deny that the Scouts have been turned away because of the

gay controversy.


"The reality is we would love to take those volunteers, but we

have an age requirement of our volunteers. I believe its 18,"

Shaw said in a phone interview.


She said Scouts and their adult leaders were welcome to apply as

volunteers individually on their own, as long as they dont apply

as a group representing the Boy Scouts.


They also may not work as a volunteer if they wear a Scout

uniform, she said.


NewsMax.com learned that the claim of age is not quite accurate.

There are children under 18 who will be a part of the Olympic

ceremonies, but Olympic officials do not consider them to be

volunteers. Instead they are called "cast members."


"You know, they can certainly go on line and apply. Thats the

one area where we are looking for younger adults and children to

participate, and they can submit requests through going online

to be cast members and so forth," Shaw said in a phone interview.


Cast members participating in Olympic events may not wear Scout

uniforms, she explained.


"We have had some Scouts participate with us already doing some

cleanup out at Soldier Hollow and other areas," said Shaw in an

effort to show that Scouts can volunteer. The litter cleanup by

Scouts in uniform was a one-time event and was limited to only

a few participants.


The Greater Salt Lake Council has approximately 80,000 Scouts of

various ages, and 35,000 adult leaders.


Latimer said he found it difficult to believe that Romney doesnt

welcome such a volunteer force, and one that has represented so

well the American people.


Godfrey said he was still hopeful that something can be worked out.


"I just think that the committee needs to be aware that were here

and still willing and wed like to do something - perhaps more

than litter detail," said Godfrey. "Were here and wed like to

help if theres something that we can do."


Shaw continued to say the only reason Boy Scouts could not be

volunteers at the Olympics was because of their age, but she did

not address why Scout leaders in uniform were not accepted.


"Im sure we have volunteers, a large percentage of them have been

former Boy Scouts, including our president and CEO [Romney],"

Shaw explained.


"I dont think were in a position to give every organization out

there official status. Theres the Girl Guides and the Girl

Scouts; I dont know, there must be at least a million youth

groups out there," said Shaw.


"Theyre a fabulous organization, but there are a lot of great

organizations out there," she added.


Shaw promised to get additional details and call back the next day,

but three weeks have gone by with no further contact. NewsMax.com

made numerous efforts to speak with her again, but she has not

responded. Romney has also ignored requests for an interview.


The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in June that the Boy Scouts of America

is a private organization that has the right to restrict who is and

who is not an adult leader. The Scouts have always refused to

permit openly gay individuals to be leaders or members.


Gay activists have since targeted the Boy Scouts, including public



Some groups have succeeded in getting many United Way chapters to

remove funding from local Scout councils. Some community

organizations have begun to deny the Scouts access to public

facilities and property on the grounds that they say the Scouts



This story was found at:



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What I find most disturbing about this discussion is that the defenders of BSA's exclusion of gays see some sort of moral high ground in their position. Yes, the Supreme Court said that the BSA is a private organization, and can therefore set its own membership guidelines. "Enough said," say the defenders of exclusion, "Let's move on."


I do not always agree with the Supreme Court. But I am a a loyal American, and I recognize their role as umpire. They have ruled, and I accept the legal authority of their decision. But just because the BSA has the right and the power to exclude does not make the exercise of that power just. Those who justify the exclusion of gay leaders on biblical grounds are ignoring the fact that a growing majority (yes, majority) of biblical scholars question the validity of the words used to condemn homosexuality in the Bible. Whether we accept one side or the other, we cannot ignore that many major Christian denominations accept gays as "fully Christian."


We MUST have and maintain the protection guidelines that protect the boys from sexual advances from their leaders, either male or female. But we must also recognize that the BSA is wrong in its (albeit lawful) discrimination against gays.


I have been a Scout and a Leader for over 40 years. I will continue to support scouting with my time and my resources. But I will also continue to work to change this officially sanctioned discrimination by our national office. It is my duty to God and Country which compels me to work within the system to right a wrong.


Discrimination against Blacks in scouts was accepted as moral and right and biblically correct forty years ago. But it was wrong. The same flawed reasoning is behind the current discrimination against gays by our national organization.

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Why are we attacking each other with name calling? Isn't that exactly what "THEY" want us to do? Our focus needs to remain on our mission - to prepare young people to make ethical choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.


Youth are the reason we exsist as an organization and they rely on us to "Set THE Example". If the youth became a part of this forum and/ or read portions would they understand?


We do need forums of this nature to freely express opinions and to talk things out. We also need to be mindful that we ARE the example, right or wrong, and with or without conscious thought.


Let us make this New Century one in which we learn to understand diversity. Morality may be an individual matter but the teaching of it, based on the Scout Oath and Law, is the business of each registered Scouter, both Volunteer AND Professional. Understanding does not necessarily mean accepting. When we begin to understand our differences we can develop an empathy and remove hatred.


The Boy Scouts of America are for all individuals who will accept and follow the Oath and Law. If you dan't or don't want to be the Example, following the Oath and Law, Scouting is NOT the place for you!

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Due to its length, this thread is closing in 24 hours. I commend the majority of participants on your thoughtful and courteous postings. I remind everyone that use of inappropriate words or remarks will not be permitted on these forums.






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