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Did you hear about the boy that is paralyzed from the neck down because he squirmed and slipped from the Cubmaster's grip? Of course that was only one boy out of thousands over the years. The success rate is pretty good. Why ruin a perfectly good ceremony for the majority just because one boy freaked out and caused the CM to drop him? Count me in the Ed camp too. We dont need no stinkin admonitions.

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I guess, Ed, since we can only find the prohibition on pg. 150 of the Tiger Cub Handbook, it may only apply to Tigers.


If you'd like to flip a few 4th or 5th graders who join as Webelos, I say more power to you!!! But hurry because those boys need to get flipped and move on to more of this "just good fun" most of us call hazing!!!!


Thanks for the citation CC.



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and herein lies the problem. It is only stated in the tiger book. At least that I've found. It is the bear and wolf leader against this. It is the webelo 1 leader wanting to do it. So, does it only apply to tigers or to all? It does not state only for tigers but rather prohibits any ceremony in which this takes place. Help me out please!

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Guest OldGreyEagle

Zippity, I know we are straying a little from your original posting, that tends to happen here. Mr Daigler made a point with his hazing comment. One this I can state is that in the Guide to Safe Scouting it states:


Hazing prohibited.

Physical hazing and initiations are prohibited and may not be included as part of any Scouting activity.


The definition of Hazing accoridng to the Merriam Webster on line dictionary (sp?) is:


Main Entry: hazing

Pronunciation: 'hA-zi[ng]

Function: noun

: the action of hazing; especially : an initiation process involving harassment


Turning a scared kid upside down is hazing and regardless of the words used in the handbooks about the bobcat ceremony, the prohibition regarding physical hazing and initiation covers it.




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Does it really matter where it is found, or how many times in print it is found? The BSA published Tiger Cub handbook states word for word on Pg. 150 (and I quote) "The Boy Scouts of America PROHIBITS any Bobcat ceremony in which boys are physically turned upside down." This is a BSA publication stating that ANY Bobcat ceremony, not Tiger Cub Bobcat ceremonies or Wolf cub Bobcat ceremonies. Prohibits is in Bold type so I think they probably feel strongly about this. How many other places does it need to be? Most Cubs start as Tigers now and should earn their Bobcat Badge as Tigers. If they prohibit it in the Tiger Cub book do you really think that they think it is alright for older boys?

Also Page 18-6 of the Cub Scout Leader Book (33221B) states the following:

Any Bobcat ceremony in which boys are physically turned upside down contains significant potential for harm and should not be used. Should NOT, not maybe could be used or if you want to do it go ahead. It says SHOULD NOT. How much clearer does it need to be?

Not flipping any Bobcats in Tennessee, just pancakes,


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OKAY granted maybe it says you can't do it in the Handbbok and in the Leaders manual, and in the G2SS, but where else? I mean if they were really serious about it wouldn't be in 12 or 15 places at least. It's not on the adult application. It's not sewn in the labels of the uniform.


So how do we know when they say "Prohibit" they not just saying "well I guess if you want to you can"? They don't make you swear not to do it in the Cub Scout Promise. I really think if they want us to take them seriously they need to at least have it done in skywriting over every council in the country every scout Sunday...Right Ed!



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nldscout, ya know BW just gets that way when Ed's serving em!!! Allergies, maybe?


Zippity (and everyone else!!) I was in the "OGE Tent of Sarcasm" when I mentioned that it might only apply to Tigers!!!! It clearly applies to all Scouts.


Look, it's simple -- DON'T FLIP BOBCATS! IT'S AGAINST THE RULES! It's PROHIBITED to flip ANY scouts during ANY ceremonies!!


Zip, tell the other Leaders, "NO!"


Be Well


You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here!


jd(This message has been edited by johndaigler)

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"I'm not sure it is "against regulations". I have seen a letter suggesting this practice be stopped but haven't seen anything officially stating it is "against regulations"."




"I don't own a Tiger handbook & didn't know it was in there."


You supported this action by saying that you hadn't seen it refered to in anything official when you did not even READ the official resources that refer to this part of the program?


That is just laughable.




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